Technically you are correct. However, there was one church group that rallied the troops in 2008 and it wasn't the Catholic church. It was the black church. As a rule, members of the black church support which side?

 

I wasn't aware that black churches generated that much enthusiasm in 2008.

While I'm generally on your side here, Clyde, there is, of course, the issue that if exercising the right to vote is all that important to these disenfranchised voters (blacks, minorities, low-income, etc...), it really shouldn't take someone cajoling them and almost literally leading them by the hand to the polling booth to exercise this right. I know this is off your point of why these regulations are being proposed/enacted at this particular point time, but nonetheless it is rather silly that it takes such a Herculean effort to get these individuals to vote. Don't tell me they don't know an election is taking place, that they are unaware of their right to vote, or that they couldn't figure out the process on their own to get registered and become a meaningful part of the political process - if it was truly important to them. That's the part of the argument that bothers me - helping to ensure that people who generally speaking don't really care about the right to vote have the easiest path to do so.

 

All fair points.

 

Irrelevant to the issue at hand though. It doesn't matter why these people did or did not get out to vote in previous elections. The fact that they came out in droves in the last election has scared some people who are now making sure it is not as easy as it was in 2008.

People can say "Oh, this is just something the GOP is trying to pull!" or " There were only 90 something cases of voter fraud." but the fact is showing ID should be required. It is logical. Voting is the most important obligation we have. We owe it too the people who have sacrificed their lives for us. We were one of the first successes of having a lasting democracy. The most important role we as citizens have is voting. If posters on here think it is a political move, I seriously believe you are just looking for something to complain about. Ethically, it is ten times better than what, as I said before, democrats do in order to try and capitalize on the illegal vote.

 

We have to show our ID to buy cigarettes. We have to show ID to buy beer. We even have to show our ID when we purchase something with a credit card to make sure we're the correct person (something that I have yet to fathom....)

 

It doesn't matter when this process would of happened. The people on the left are going to complain because the GOP is enacting it. Get over it. And the only reason the Dem's haven't proposed it is because they are getting more and more dependent on the illegal vote in certain parts of the country. From what I have been reading, stopping people who have no right to vote in America is the reason this was put forth. Not some conspiracy to prohibit blacks, hispanics and black churches from voting. People are putting their own spin on it.

 

Why are you limiting the issue to IDs? Why are you ignoring the obvious intent of these actions?

 

You still have not shown proof of illegal voting taking place .

 

You are naive to say the least if you believe these particular laws are anything but an attempt to suppress voting amongst certain groups.

 

Do not ignore the fact that the group working with states to enact these specific laws is founded by the guy who said "less voters is good."

I wasn't aware that black churches generated that much enthusiasm in 2008.

 

Without question.

People can say "Oh, this is just something the GOP is trying to pull!" or " There were only 90 something cases of voter fraud." but the fact is showing ID should be required. It is logical. Voting is the most important obligation we have. We owe it too the people who have sacrificed their lives for us. We were one of the first successes of having a lasting democracy. The most important role we as citizens have is voting. If posters on here think it is a political move, I seriously believe you are just looking for something to complain about. Ethically, it is ten times better than what, as I said before, democrats do in order to try and capitalize on the illegal vote.

 

We have to show our ID to buy cigarettes. We have to show ID to buy beer. We even have to show our ID when we purchase something with a credit card to make sure we're the correct person (something that I have yet to fathom....)

 

It doesn't matter when this process would of happened. The people on the left are going to complain because the GOP is enacting it. Get over it. And the only reason the Dem's haven't proposed it is because they are getting more and more dependent on the illegal vote in certain parts of the country. From what I have been reading, stopping people who have no right to vote in America is the reason this was put forth. Not some conspiracy to prohibit blacks, hispanics and black churches from voting. People are putting their own spin on it.

You most certainly are .

In my experience as a poll worker in Campbell Co I have never seen the hint of any voter fraud in the 10 years that I have worked ,and I have worked in 3 different precincts in that time . As far as I am concerned it is much ado about nothing .

In my experience as a poll worker in Campbell Co I have never seen the hint of any voter fraud in the 10 years that I have worked ,and I have worked in 3 different precincts in that time . As far as I am concerned it is much ado about nothing .

It's the same reason no one counterfeits $1 bills.

Let me ask this of those who are down playing the need for laws to combat voter fraud...should we wait for voter fraud to happen before implementing laws to combat it?

Let me ask this of those who are down playing the need for laws to combat voter fraud...should we wait for voter fraud to happen before implementing laws to combat it?

 

Really good question. The challenge is if there's not a problem yet how do you know what laws you put in place will actually combat it. What specific method of voting fraud exists today that we need to combat?

 

Do you think eliminating Sunday early voting fixes a big problem?

 

Do you think dropping the early voting period down significantly solves the big problem of voter fraud?

 

Does requiring early registration cards to be submitted within 48 hours of collection solve that problem?

 

The issue and debate is not "should we combat voter fraud?" That's obvious.

 

This thread is strictly pointing to the transparent efforts by a group of people (not every R supports this) to suppress voters by groups that do not usually support them.

Conspiracy Theorists unite! :lol:

 

Sorry this thread just seemed like the appropriate place.

Conspiracy Theorists unite! :lol:

 

Sorry this thread just seemed like the appropriate place.

 

Count me in!

 

In all seriousness, little things like Kent State, Watergate, going to war with Iraq, etc. have made me just a bit jaded.

Really good question. The challenge is if there's not a problem yet how do you know what laws you put in place will actually combat it. What specific method of voting fraud exists today that we need to combat?

 

Do you think eliminating Sunday early voting fixes a big problem?

 

Do you think dropping the early voting period down significantly solves the big problem of voter fraud?

 

Does requiring early registration cards to be submitted within 48 hours of collection solve that problem?

 

The issue and debate is not "should we combat voter fraud?" That's obvious.

 

This thread is strictly pointing to the transparent efforts by a group of people (not every R supports this) to suppress voters by groups that do not usually support them.

I'm not into conspiracy theories but some of the these laws are hard to defend.

I'm not into conspiracy theories but some of the these laws are hard to defend.

 

Particularly in light of the "less government intrusion" movement.

Why are you limiting the issue to IDs? Why are you ignoring the obvious intent of these actions?

 

I'm not. I just think it is the biggest factor to stop voter fraud. Have you forgotten what I posted earlier? I already commented on those issues.

 

You still have not shown proof of illegal voting taking place .

 

You are naive to say the least if you believe these particular laws are anything but an attempt to suppress voting amongst certain groups.

 

I have already told you 2.6 million illegals estimated in California (2009). You can choose to believe that no illegals voted, but I wouldn't be so quick to use the word naive to describe someone.

 

Do not ignore the fact that the group working with states to enact these specific laws is founded by the guy who said "less voters is good."

 

Well I guess that just confirms the complete difference of opinions in Repubs and Dems. Repubs want less people to vote. Dems want everyone to vote. No matter who.

Particularly in light of the "less government intrusion" movement.

 

 

Less doesn't mean none and I would think voting laws would be right up there in priority.