Yeah I heard that was their pregame plan.

 

And they executed it very well :banana:

Yeah I heard that was their pregame plan.

 

Were you at the game? If not, you won't understand why myself and a few other posters said the refs calls were horrible.

 

The whole first quarter Chris Hayes did the same move/crossover to beat his man and get to the bucket. Second quarter and third quarter comes and all of a sudden they start calling palming anytime he crosses over and uses the same move? As MUSTANG said, it was one of those "point of emphasis" rules that they were trying to continually implement that likely will never be called the rest of the season.

 

Mustang has been around a very long time and a well respected poster on this site. IF he agrees that the calls weren't legit, it's tough to argue against it.

Rice picked up 2 early fouls and he may have been scared to dribble the ball after seeing how the refs were when Holmes guards had the ball:D I seriously couldn't believe some of the carrying violations that were called :eyeonyou: The only explanation I have as to why Holmes was called for so many carrying violations compared to 1 for BB was that the Holmes guards had such quick handles the Refs had to say to themselves wow, How did he do that??? He must of carried the ball:laugh:

 

Sure are putting alot of blame of the refs. Sounds like a good game. Maybe you should be giving Brossart a little more respect than you are. These boys carry all the time, no matter what high school they play for. Its a tough call to make cut them some slack.

Holmes looked very good! Great speed, athleticism and worked extremely hard on defense disrupting the Brossart pass attempts. They may have been smaller on paper, but they played a whole lot closer to the rim than Brossart did. Good job by Brossart by not throwing in the towel after being shell shocked by Holmes at the beginning of the game. Congrats to coach Booher and the rest of the friendly Holmes staff that was in attendance last night.

I'm still a bit rusty on player's names for the Bulldogs but it was hard to miss Gray and how this guy could really get up! Hayes is definitely the real deal... quick and dynamic with a variety of ways to score. Palmer has a real nice looking accurate 3 point shot. What really impressed me was the Bulldogs on the offensive boards getting 2nd and 3rd chance points. They don't stand around on offense either, keeping things rolling, opening up lanes to the basket with great frequency. Aside from all the nonsense palming calls, the 2nd half walking call on the Bulldogs was really laughable when you could see in the ref's body language that he knew that he was making the wrong call. He blew his whistle anticipating the walk because he didn't think the player was going to successfully get a pass off when he was falling to the floor. It was beautifully executed but the ref made the call anyhow. As the ref started to spin his arms around signifying the call you could just see that he was thinking "Ooops... I really blew that one". The Bulldogs are showing a lot of poise and maturity early in the season for such a young team with little varsity experience. If they keep following Booher's lead and tweak a few small issues I think they're going to surprise a lot of people. They're playing quick with the addition of smarts and a good TEAMWORK ethic. That's a good recipe for success. Some may say they lack height, but they make up for it with speed and quickness. They can still play above the rim and they really didn't look that small with the 2 dunks they pulled off.

Were you at the game? If not, you won't understand why myself and a few other posters said the refs calls were horrible.

 

The whole first quarter Chris Hayes did the same move/crossover to beat his man and get to the bucket. Second quarter and third quarter comes and all of a sudden they start calling palming anytime he crosses over and uses the same move? As MUSTANG said, it was one of those "point of emphasis" rules that they were trying to continually implement that likely will never be called the rest of the season.

 

Mustang has been around a very long time and a well respected poster on this site. IF he agrees that the calls weren't legit, it's tough to argue against it.

So as long as you've been a long time poster you're qualified to officiate? Okay makes sense.

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So as long as you've been a long time poster you're qualified to officiate? Okay makes sense.

 

I think that what he's saying is how often do you see a fan of the opposing team agree that the calls were bad is his team's favor. That sorta helps legitimize the claims.

Sure are putting alot of blame of the refs. Sounds like a good game. Maybe you should be giving Brossart a little more respect than you are. These boys carry all the time, no matter what high school they play for. Its a tough call to make cut them some slack.

 

I'm not blaming the refs at all but they pretty much took away the strength of Holmes this year and that's having quicker guards with better handles than most of the teams they will match up against...I believe it becomes a problem when a High School kid has such a quick crossover that it catches even the supposedly QUALIFIED OFFICIAL off guard and makes him call a palming violation...It can really mess with a young kids confidence when your taking away his strength and that's being quicker with the ball than his defender and apparently to quick for the Officials eyes...However you can do a crossover dribble in slow motion and it's simply a crossover, no whistle blown:rolleyes: No need to change what your doing young Mr. Hayes, keep your head up...Other than that their were the typical blown calls such as the travel on a saved rebound that would have been a nasty dunk by Cris Hayes at the other end and an obvious up and down blown call on BB, but all in all this Bulldog's fan is happy to see such a young team come away with a W despite all this ^ !!!

I think that what he's saying is how often do you see a fan of the opposing team agree that the calls were bad is his team's favor. That sorta helps legitimize the claims.

 

I don't understand how it qualifies them as knowing more than the officials? And as happens so often the untrained in the stands state as fact that the calls were incorrect.

I don't understand how it qualifies them as knowing more than the officials? And as happens so often the untrained in the stands state as fact that the calls were incorrect.

Technically, according to the "points of emphasis" listed above the calls were probably not incorrect.

However, they were disruptive to the flow of the game, had no bearing on one team gaining an advantage over another, and are the same palming violations that have been accepted as "legal" in the past.

If the "Principal of Verticality" point of emphasis, and the "Hand Checking" point of emphasis were enforced as ridgedly as the "Plaming" was enforced, it would have been a total whistle-fest, with a myriad of disruptive fouls called that had no bearing on the playing of the game.

It seems to me that the National Federation might look into less whistle blowing on the skill areas of the game, and more closely regulate the contact areas.

 

With all of the complaining about the officials in this thread one might think that this trio did a poor job. They did not. They actually called a great game under the circmstances and I don't think either coach/fans would have any complaints outside of the frivilous plaming calls, and they were all called by the same official.

Technically, according to the "points of emphasis" listed above the calls were probably not incorrect.

However, they were disruptive to the flow of the game, had no bearing on one team gaining an advantage over another, and are the same palming violations that have been accepted as "legal" in the past.

If the "Principal of Verticality" point of emphasis, and the "Hand Checking" point of emphasis were enforced as ridgedly as the "Plaming" was enforced, it would have been a total whistle-fest, with a myriad of disruptive fouls called that had no bearing on the playing of the game.

It seems to me that the National Federation might look into less whistle blowing on the skill areas of the game, and more closely regulate the contact areas.

 

With all of the complaining about the officials in this thread one might think that this trio did a poor job. They did not. They actually called a great game under the circmstances and I don't think either coach/fans would have any complaints outside of the frivilous plaming calls, and they were all called by the same official.

 

That shed's a much greater light on what was trying to be conveyed and very well put. Thank you! :thumb:

Technically, according to the "points of emphasis" listed above the calls were probably not incorrect.

However, they were disruptive to the flow of the game, had no bearing on one team gaining an advantage over another, and are the same palming violations that have been accepted as "legal" in the past.

If the "Principal of Verticality" point of emphasis, and the "Hand Checking" point of emphasis were enforced as ridgedly as the "Plaming" was enforced, it would have been a total whistle-fest, with a myriad of disruptive fouls called that had no bearing on the playing of the game.

It seems to me that the National Federation might look into less whistle blowing on the skill areas of the game, and more closely regulate the contact areas.

 

With all of the complaining about the officials in this thread one might think that this trio did a poor job. They did not. They actually called a great game under the circmstances and I don't think either coach/fans would have any complaints outside of the frivilous plaming calls, and they were all called by the same official.

 

I don't think that the refs called a poor game in general either. I do however think that the frivolous palming calls in addition to the fact that the Mustangs were a completely more composed team with tighter defense in the 2nd half took the Bulldogs out of their flow. It was really a combination of both, but I was happy to see the Bulldogs play through it and stay composed to get it done. The Mustangs were really coming on and nipping at the lead. The Bulldogs keeping a cool head through it all and following the game plan seriously prevented them from blowing the game completely. A lesser composed team might've spawned entirely different results resulting in a Mustang victory.

I don't think that the refs called a poor game in general either. I do however think that the frivolous palming calls in addition to the fact that the Mustangs were a completely more composed team with tighter defense in the 2nd half took the Bulldogs out of their flow. It was really a combination of both, but I was happy to see the Bulldogs play through it and stay composed to get it done. The Mustangs were really coming on and nipping at the lead. The Bulldogs keeping a cool head through it all and following the game plan seriously prevented them from blowing the game completely. A lesser composed team might've spawned entirely different results resulting in a Mustang victory.

 

Very good point some of the past Holmes teams probably would have lost their cool, maybe blown the game and picked up a few T's as well...I love to see the young guys keep their cool and fight through some adversity...

Very good point some of the past Holmes teams probably would have lost their cool, maybe blown the game and picked up a few T's as well...I love to see the young guys keep their cool and fight through some adversity...

 

I'm with you there on all accounts. Although no team likes to face unnecessary adversity, it probably didn't hurt the Bulldogs this early in the season to have to deal with it to prove to themselves first hand that staying focused creates more favorable results for the fruits of their labor. They're certain to face more as the season progresses and learning early can only help them stay above board when it does occur.

Sure are putting alot of blame of the refs. Sounds like a good game. Maybe you should be giving Brossart a little more respect than you are. These boys carry all the time, no matter what high school they play for. Its a tough call to make cut them some slack.

 

I don't think anyone is blaming the refs and saying they called a bad game. As stated in several different posts, they actually called a very good game. It was just a few unwarranted palming calls that really affected the game flow. I believe at one point there was 4 or 5 calls in a row for palming. Hayes alone had 2 or 3 in a row which prompted Booher to sit him.

 

I'm still a bit rusty on player's names for the Bulldogs but it was hard to miss Gray and how this guy could really get up! Hayes is definitely the real deal... quick and dynamic with a variety of ways to score. Palmer has a real nice looking accurate 3 point shot. What really impressed me was the Bulldogs on the offensive boards getting 2nd and 3rd chance points. They don't stand around on offense either, keeping things rolling, opening up lanes to the basket with great frequency. Aside from all the nonsense palming calls, the 2nd half walking call on the Bulldogs was really laughable when you could see in the ref's body language that he knew that he was making the wrong call. He blew his whistle anticipating the walk because he didn't think the player was going to successfully get a pass off when he was falling to the floor. It was beautifully executed but the ref made the call anyhow. As the ref started to spin his arms around signifying the call you could just see that he was thinking "Ooops... I really blew that one". The Bulldogs are showing a lot of poise and maturity early in the season for such a young team with little varsity experience. If they keep following Booher's lead and tweak a few small issues I think they're going to surprise a lot of people. They're playing quick with the addition of smarts and a good TEAMWORK ethic. That's a good recipe for success. Some may say they lack height, but they make up for it with speed and quickness. They can still play above the rim and they really didn't look that small with the 2 dunks they pulled off.

 

Holmes may be somewhat inexperienced, but this is still a team that starts 3 seniors (Hayes, Mayfield, Gray) and 2 juniors (Rice, Knox). Their first two guys off the bench are young (Peterson-soph, Palmer- soph), but the other guy, Lewis, is a junior as well.

 

I thought Holmes looked best with Peterson, Rice, Palmer, Hayes, and Gray out on the floor together. That is a very athletic bunch. Knox provides a toughness down low that really reminds me of Terrence Clark from the 08 team. He is a smaller version of Trevan Brown, IMO. Can't wait to see those two battle.

 

BTW, anyone who missed Chris Hayes' dunk...WOW! He skied from outside the lane and threw it down hard with one hand. You can tell that he hit the weightroom over the summer and he's been working on his vertical leap. Hayes, Gray, and Rice get up so effortlessly. There were several rebounds that Rice, Hayes, and Gray had where I just looked at the person next to me and we both just smiled and shook our heads.

 

Technically, according to the "points of emphasis" listed above the calls were probably not incorrect.

However, they were disruptive to the flow of the game, had no bearing on one team gaining an advantage over another, and are the same palming violations that have been accepted as "legal" in the past.

If the "Principal of Verticality" point of emphasis, and the "Hand Checking" point of emphasis were enforced as ridgedly as the "Plaming" was enforced, it would have been a total whistle-fest, with a myriad of disruptive fouls called that had no bearing on the playing of the game.

It seems to me that the National Federation might look into less whistle blowing on the skill areas of the game, and more closely regulate the contact areas.

 

With all of the complaining about the officials in this thread one might think that this trio did a poor job. They did not. They actually called a great game under the circmstances and I don't think either coach/fans would have any complaints outside of the frivilous plaming calls, and they were all called by the same official.

 

Very nice explanation, Mustang.

 

You're spot on with everything and I agree that the officiating was actually pretty darn good for it being the first game of the year.