I didn't watch so I'm curious how Paul was dominating the debates. Any specifics?

Anything?

Right there, LN. That's where you and I diverge. We both think the man was wrong. But you (clearly) state she went looking for trouble and she's at fault. I'm not sure how else I should take that. What you seem to be clearly stating is that if she staged the stunt, she's at fault. But what I'm not clear about is whether you feel that by simply showing up to present Paul the fake award is staging the stunt, or that you feel she staged the physical altercation.

 

I think the lady was hoping for some knee jerk over-reaction by Paul and/or his supporters. Whether she was hoping she'd get pushed to the ground, I have no idea.

 

Yes I do feel that if people go looking for trouble, they are at fault and have some blame. If I was on a jury involving a case where a black man went into a white biker bar and uttered a white racial slur and got the heck beat out of him, I'd vote to convict the man that beat the black man, and after the trial was over, I'd walk out of courtroom and say the black man was also at fault. If I was on a jury involving a case where a white man went into a black biker bar and uttered a black racial slur and got the heck beat out of him, I'd vote to convict the man that beat the white man, and after the trial was over, I'd walk out of courtroom and say the white man was also at fault.

 

If you don't think she has any fault or any blame, that's obviously your choice. If you think that the First Amendment completely exonerates someone from blame or responsibility when the right is exercised, that's obviously your choice. Me, I look at the situation as being one that is obviously fueled with emotion to begin with. A lot of Paul supporters are very, very angry at where this country has gone and is going. The Paul supporters see the recent shameful ads by Conway involving something Paul allegedly did in college decades ago and get even angrier because of the ads below the belt nature. It's the last debate between the two. Emotions are very, very high in both camps. In steps some Moveon member who in my opinion, was simply trying to get a knee jerk reaction to make the Paul supporters look stupid, un-intelligent and like red necks. She's intentionally pouring gasoline on the fire and no one wants to blame the person pouring the gas, but only wants to blame the resulting explosion. When she gets burned by the explosion, people are wanting to say: "but she had the right to pour the gasoline, so it wasn't her fault at all she got burned". To that I say baloney. You, me and everyone else are each responsible for our actions and bear some responsibility for the consequences of our actions.

 

People cannot shed responsibility for their actions and just hide behind the First Amendment in my opinion. What the man in the video did was wrong and it disturbs me. What also disturbs me is that if the lady staged the event in order to get the kind of reaction it did, very few other people on here seem bothered by it. This "gotcha" type of political campaigning has to stop and until more people actually start condemning it, causing it to backfire, it will get worse. And if it gets worse, the ability to have open and free discourse involving candidates and their positions so we can make intelligent voting decisions, will suffer. IF ambushing candidates at debates, speeches and rallies becomes the norm, will we be able to attract candidates? Will they be willing to make appearances and disclose their political views so we can make informed decisions? Will they be accessible to public questioning? I think not and yes I will blame the people that pull these stupid, immature and dumb stunts for that happening.

 

 

I'm curious. Do we know where the video originated? Was it taken by another Moveon member?

I think the lady was hoping for some knee jerk over-reaction by Paul and/or his supporters. Whether she was hoping she'd get pushed to the ground, I have no idea.

 

Yes I do feel that if people go looking for trouble, they are at fault and have some blame. If I was on a jury involving a case where a black man went into a white biker bar and uttered a white racial slur and got the heck beat out of him, I'd vote to convict the man that beat the black man, and after the trial was over, I'd walk out of courtroom and say the black man was also at fault. If I was on a jury involving a case where a white man went into a black biker bar and uttered a black racial slur and got the heck beat out of him, I'd vote to convict the man that beat the white man, and after the trial was over, I'd walk out of courtroom and say the white man was also at fault.

 

If you don't think she has any fault or any blame, that's obviously your choice. If you think that the First Amendment completely exonerates someone from blame or responsibility when the right is exercised, that's obviously your choice. Me, I look at the situation as being one that is obviously fueled with emotion to begin with. A lot of Paul supporters are very, very angry at where this country has gone and is going. The Paul supporters see the recent shameful ads by Conway involving something Paul allegedly did in college decades ago and get even angrier because of the ads below the belt nature. It's the last debate between the two. Emotions are very, very high in both camps. In steps some Moveon member who in my opinion, was simply trying to get a knee jerk reaction to make the Paul supporters look stupid, un-intelligent and like red necks. She's intentionally pouring gasoline on the fire and no one wants to blame the person pouring the gas, but only wants to blame the resulting explosion. When she gets burned by the explosion, people are wanting to say: "but she had the right to pour the gasoline, so it wasn't her fault at all she got burned". To that I say baloney. You, me and everyone else are each responsible for our actions and bear some responsibility for the consequences of our actions.

 

People cannot shed responsibility for their actions and just hide behind the First Amendment in my opinion. What the man in the video did was wrong and it disturbs me. What also disturbs me is that if the lady staged the event in order to get the kind of reaction it did, very few other people on here seem bothered by it. This "gotcha" type of political campaigning has to stop and until more people actually start condemning it, causing it to backfire, it will get worse. And if it gets worse, the ability to have open and free discourse involving candidates and their positions so we can make intelligent voting decisions, will suffer. IF ambushing candidates at debates, speeches and rallies becomes the norm, will we be able to attract candidates? Will they be willing to make appearances and disclose their political views so we can make informed decisions? Will they be accessible to public questioning? I think not and yes I will blame the people that pull these stupid, immature and dumb stunts for that happening.

 

 

I'm curious. Do we know where the video originated? Was it taken by another Moveon member?

It appears to have originated from WDRB the FOX affiliate in Louisville

http://www.fox41.com/Global/story.asp?S=13391360 The Paul campaign Thug will only be charged with a misdemeanor .

It appears to have originated from WDRB the FOX affiliate in Louisville

http://www.fox41.com/Global/story.asp?S=13391360 The Paul campaign Thug will only be charged with a misdemeanor .

 

What is your opinion of the activist instigator of the whole incident?

 

How about addressing LN's entire, very well thought out post rather then just doing exactly what he condems. Going for the "gotcha".

 

What should the person be charged with in your opinion?

 

Is the MoveOn.org activist who was trying to insert herself into a Kentucky election, who has a history of arrest for her positions completely blameless?

Anything?

By "dominating", he controlled the debate. It was not as if Rand was schooling him on the issues, but Conway came across as very weak and feeble in his demeanor.

After watching the video of the Paul supporteris actions I'm Glad that I have voted for Conway .

Ah yes, a vote for Conway is a vote against violence.

Pretty simple in summing up the ruckus. The guy should be prosecuted to the fullest extent, but I would assume MoveOn lady got out of the event what she intended to (and no, that does not mean a black eye or physical harm).

What is your opinion of the activist instigator of the whole incident?

 

How about addressing LN's entire, very well thought out post rather then just doing exactly what he condems. Going for the "gotcha".

 

What should the person be charged with in your opinion?

 

Is the MoveOn.org activist who was trying to insert herself into a Kentucky election, who has a history of arrest for her positions completely blameless?

I think that she is stupid and probably has a martyrdom complex . And I think that not only should the stomper be charged with assult but also the person that held her down so he could do the stomping should be charged too .

Going in I was leaning Conway. Now, I'm not so sure. Is it bad if I abstain from voting in this particular race?

 

I was just thinking the same thing last night. I've never sat out an election and won't this time but I'm leaning toward passing on these two.

Yup. A perfectly acceptable reason to do what the guy did. :lol:

 

If she was trying to approach Paul and looked suspicious, as she probably did wearing her wig, who is to know what her intentions were. What if no one reacted and she walked up and shot Paul? I think the initial response was more then acceptable, but I will say again I had a problem with the "stomp".

I think that she is stupid and probably has a martyrdom complex . And I think that not only should the stomper be charged with assult but also the person that held her down so he could do the stomping should be charged too .

 

What are you going to charge the guy that held her down with? To be honest what the "stomper" didn't warrant felony assault. A misdemeanor is the right charge.

I haven't seen the video, but if she got her head stomped on, I would say it applies.

After seeing the video, I would take back the "getting her head bashed in" comment ... still, the Paul campaign worker's action was uncalled for.

 

As for the activist ... we are in the era of political protesters doing this kind of things on both sides. Getting physical with them isn't the proper response.

And that proves he is a supporter, not a plant? Look this thug needs to be identified and prosecuted but I haven't heard anything that says definitively he is a Paul supporter but that certainly hasn't stopped leftys from using this a blanket indictment of all Paul supporters and that's the reactions I'm sure the MoveOn.org activist was trying to get.

He is (or was, as it turns out), a volunteer Paul campaign worker ... I guess the "plant" talking point just went out the window.

It appears to have originated from WDRB the FOX affiliate in Louisville

http://www.fox41.com/Global/story.asp?S=13391360 The Paul campaign Thug will only be charged with a misdemeanor .

 

What do you believe he should be charged with? It looks like a misdemeanor assault, and that is what he is charged with.

After watching the video of the Paul supporteris actions I'm Glad that I have voted for Conway .

 

In the "How Much Do These Things Sway You" thread, you opined:

 

Issues and where the candidates stand on them are the only things that matter to me and determine which candidate will earn my vote .