Based on perceptions that are out there, and they are out there. After all, as has been brought up time and time again, whether any real advantage exists or not is irrelevant, it's the perception that matters.

Right so how does my suggestion do anything but offer to help with the private school perception problem?

So I'm supposed to jump up and sing Kumbaya with Manual and the public school supporters that want to eliminate private school kids from championships. Before you blame me for spewing venom at Manual perhaps you had better remember it was your principal who brought this upon your school.

 

I know this won't help the private schools, to be completely honest I don't think anything will as I don't believe that anyone on the public side has any real desire to come up with any agreements on this. But I will continue to point out what I honestly feel is the hypocrisy of the administrations from Male and Manual for supporting this proposal.

So when a compromise is offered, like ram95 did, all you can do is assault him?

 

Because that doesn't really make any sense.

 

Bluegrasspreps is probably the largest collection in the state of people that are both knowledgeable and passionate about high school sports in the state of Kentucky, with supporters of both private and public schools. We're a little microcosom of this fight. The difference is, we have people that are OPENLY disucssing solutions, instead of only seeing the problems or creating new ones (and those people are on BOTH sides of the public/private divide!) Why aren't we doing more to affect change? I can tell you that the majority of the membership opposes a split. Why aren't we organizing?

 

WHY ARE WE TRAPPED IN THIS STUPID, DESTRUCTIVE CYCLE OF ATTACKING EACH OTHER?

 

We have to stop. We have to be part of the solution. We have to be thinking about ways to move the KHSAA through this INTACT. We need to be calling up the principals and ADs of our schools and asking them why a compromise isn't being considered. If they don't have one, WE need to be the ones to draft it.

 

It's time for some leadership from the people who care about this. It's time WE showed some leadership to get this FIXED.

If prop 20 brings both sides to the table and gets them talking to save the current system by making both sides feel that they are playing on a level field, then it is a good thing it passed the vote and got the conversation started. But if it actually goes through and becomes reality as written then none of us are going to be happy.

 

I agree in part with RowdyRedRam that the split is bad and really that any changes to the system just open up more loopholes, equity will never happen, but atleast if both sides are talking instead of sniping we would all feel better about it and still have the current system.

I assaulted no one and you know as well as I do that the people I was talking about as being unwilling to compromise were the administrators.

I assaulted no one and you know as well as I do that the people I was talking about as being unwilling to compromise were the administrators.

Then why are your argueing with me, and being critical of any one that went to my schools instead of trying to help me come up with ideas that solve both parties problems?

For cripes sake for the 100th time we are passed that point. Either you can cry about it or try to figure out a solution to the problem. If you can only paint all of Manual and public school supporters with the same brush then that is your problem. We are offering a debate to come up with a better solution then prop 20, what have you offered other than an argument?

 

Exactly. Trying to divide the publics from within is not going to help your cause. This is very simple. The public position is that privates have advantages so numerous and profound that they (privates) constitute an entirely different category of sports program. The privates can either offer changes to mitigate some of their advantages or refuse to offer anything substantive (in which case the publics will probably say, "enjoy your championships and have a nice day.")

I assaulted no one and you know as well as I do that the people I was talking about as being unwilling to compromise were the administrators.

But all you care about is what you think CAN'T be done.

 

I'm interested in what we can do. Working together.

 

I think that its sadly telling that in this new forum, there are more threads than you can count about Manual and Male and why they should be hated, but precious few (if any!) about what can be done to fix this. Everyone wants to talk about problems, and no one wants to talk about solutions. That isn't unusual early in a crisis, because it's the easy thing to do. But we need to move past that mentality, now.

Ok lets' move on. What are some ideas that would remedy the situation that the privates could live with? I for one am all for NO out of state players for either side, and limiting the drawning area for the catholic schools to at least their own archdiocese. And a clearing house to prove that the people that are paying for athletes to attend are infact the familys and no funny business is going on, and that the bill for that would be paid by the whole KHSAA not just the privates schools.

Ok lets' move on. What are some ideas that would remedy the situation that the privates could live with? I for one am all for NO out of state players for either side, and limiting the drawning area for the catholic schools to at least their own archdiocese. And a clearing house to prove that the people that are paying for athletes to attend are infact the familys and no funny business is going on, and that the bill for that would be paid by the whole KHSAA not just the privates schools.

The problem with the clearing house is privacy. Right now, financial aid is determined by an outside service. That doesn't seem to be good enough to satisfy people. They want names and amounts. Even then, they would want the to know the exact income of each players family so they could compare. Someone could come up with statistics but I don't think it would be enough to satisfy anyone. Right now there are three people TOTAL at Trinity that know how much financial aid each student gets. That is done to protect privacy. The people telling this clearing house you have proposed the financial aid statistics for athletes and non athletes are the same people that are telling you today that financial aid is awarded based on the findings of the outside service. Those that are calling Dr. Mullin a liar today would still be calling him a liar then. There are some statistics that are in the public domain. Based on the parish affiliations listed in the program, Trinity's football team is about 12 percent non Catholic. The school as a whole is about 20 percent non Catholic. Think about that for a minute. The percentage for the football team is much LOWER than for the school as a whole. This great raid of the public school is a myth.

The problem with the clearing house is privacy. Right now, financial aid is determined by an outside service. That doesn't seem to be good enough to satisfy people. They want names and amounts. Even then, they would want the to know the exact income of each players family so they could compare. Someone could come up with statistics but I don't think it would be enough to satisfy anyone. Right now there are three people TOTAL at Trinity that know how much financial aid each student gets. That is done to protect privacy. The people telling this clearing house you have proposed the financial aid statistics for athletes and non athletes are the same people that are telling you today that financial aid is awarded based on the findings of the outside service. Those that are calling Dr. Mullin a liar today would still be calling him a liar then. There are some statistics that are in the public domain. Based on the parish affiliations listed in the program, Trinity's football team is about 12 percent non Catholic. The school as a whole is about 20 percent non Catholic. Think about that for a minute. The percentage for the football team is much LOWER than for the school as a whole. This great raid of the public school is a myth.

I'm not saying I believe this myth...

But.

 

That percentage doesn't prove anything. The question isn't about the team as a whole but about the stars who aren't Catholic. I'm sure there are so many Catholic kids that grow up dreaming about playing for X and Trinity that they more than offset the few that are lured there in an underhanded manner.

 

Besides, are the parish affiliations 100% accurate? More than a few times I've heard 'I go to St. Such and Such, and I've never seen that kid.

 

I'm on your side here. I want Catholic schools to be competing with public schools for state titles that mean something. I don't believe in the conclusions that what I wrote in this post would lead to. But like ram95 said, we've obviously passed the point where 'just trust us' is going to work. We need to figure out what WILL work.

I understand that it is irrelevant whether or not they are approved of aid, but it is not irrelevent to the discussion of why the publics seem to find the recruiting and tuituion remission linked. Again I am not accusing, I am merely pointing out that it is an accusation and there is a way to prove it false. Why would the private schools not what to do something that would prove the message they have been putting out there? It is just a suggestion.

 

I personally would not mind percentages or other information being published because I know we are above board. As long as no names or financial information is released. The problem is, that a school should not have to prove its innocence. It is the burden of the accusers to prove guilt and that just isn't happening.

Help me out here...

 

Just how does a kid get into Manual High? Entrance exam? Have to "know someone"? What?

I'm not saying I believe this myth...

But.

 

That percentage doesn't prove anything. The question isn't about the team as a whole but about the stars who aren't Catholic. I'm sure there are so many Catholic kids that grow up dreaming about playing for X and Trinity that they more than offset the few that are lured there in an underhanded manner.

 

Besides, are the parish affiliations 100% accurate? More than a few times I've heard 'I go to St. Such and Such, and I've never seen that kid.

 

I'm on your side here. I want Catholic schools to be competing with public schools for state titles that mean something. I don't believe in the conclusions that what I wrote in this post would lead to. But like ram95 said, we've obviously passed the point where 'just trust us' is going to work. We need to figure out what WILL work.

 

I didn't include percentages on starters because I'm not sure that I know all of the starters. I think there are only two starters that don't come from a Catholic parish. You will notice that the percentage of starters is even lower than for the team as a whole. Are the parish affiliations 100 percent accurate? My guess is yes, but once again we are asked to prove we are not fabricating information. I went to see The Crucible saturday. Why does that come to mind?

 

And by the way, I refuse to accept your premise that ANY students are lured in an "underhanded" manner. THAT is the kind of nonsense assumption that drives us crazy. Let's lay out what you just said. You have just said that Dr. Robert Mullin is a liar and a cheat. And you wonder why we get mad.

Help me out here...

 

Just how does a kid get into Manual High? Entrance exam? Have to "know someone"? What?

You have to apply there are five different magnets and you have five different requirements to get in this link shows them all. But again it has nothing to do with prop 20 does it?

Manual Admissions

After you apply and show that you are eligible there is kind of a lottery. For YPAS and Visual Arts the profolio and audition are more the way kids are chosen.

 

And by the way, I refuse to accept your premise that ANY students are lured in an "underhanded" manner. THAT is the kind of nonsense assumption that drives us crazy. Let's lay out what you just said. You have just said that Dr. Robert Mullin is a liar and a cheat. And you wonder why we get mad.

That is not what he is saying. What he is saying is that the perception by many in the community is that many alumni and boosters go out and get parents better paying jobs or bonuses, pay the kids tuition, let kids live with them, pick them up and take them to school, and other wise help out the kids that are good athletes. Noone is saying that the school is doing this as a matter of policy, or that this is the case with the majority of folks. Listen, Trinity was going to have Brain Brohm as a star, St. X was going to have Will Wollford and Chip Mattingly and I even say Vic Anderson whose brother played at St.X lots of others too. But there are some guys that are from Catholic Churches that are from Indiana or several counties around that are on the team, there are some guys that have no connection whatsoever to the program or Catholic faith that are on the team and there are some in the public schools that feel that some of those kids may have been recruited but no one is saying that Trinitys or St.X's administration is directing that personally or even has knowledge of it. In fact we are saying that it is probably misunderstandings or bogus. But there are ways to prove that, why not do them?

 

You are trying to suggest this is a witch hunt but the fact is that the public schools have not turned anyone over to the KHSAA for a witch hunt, the only one that was Holy Cross was found to be guilty however. What this amounts to is alot of plausable deniablity on the part of the privates and the public know it! So they are saying there has to be changes or else. I don't want the or else to happen so what are the answers?