I personally would not mind percentages or other information being published because I know we are above board. As long as no names or financial information is released. The problem is, that a school should not have to prove its innocence. It is the burden of the accusers to prove guilt and that just isn't happening.

If I go up to you and shake your hand and in my palm there is three hundred dollar bills, how is that traceable? How would St.X or Trinity know about it? There is no way. How can I prove it happened? You can't. But what you can do is look at the percentages and tell that just as many poor urban students are getting as much aid as athletes and there families are making ends meet, or if you don't find any then you know something is rotten in Denmark. If things are above board as everyone says then this would be hard data to prove it. If not then you know that something is going on and needs to be addressed, either way it is not an endictment of the schools administration, it is a chance to make the system work in the open for everyone to see. Don't think of it as an accusation think of it as a way to improve the system already in place to ensure that things are working properly.

I didn't include percentages on starters because I'm not sure that I know all of the starters. I think there are only two starters that don't come from a Catholic parish. You will notice that the percentage of starters is even lower than for the team as a whole. Are the parish affiliations 100 percent accurate? My guess is yes, but once again we are asked to prove we are not fabricating information. I went to see The Crucible saturday. Why does that come to mind?

 

And by the way, I refuse to accept your premise that ANY students are lured in an "underhanded" manner. THAT is the kind of nonsense assumption that drives us crazy. Let's lay out what you just said. You have just said that Dr. Robert Mullin is a liar and a cheat. And you wonder why we get mad.

Did you read through what I wrote with a determination to be offended?

 

I said, QUITE clearly, that this isn't my opinion. It is, however, the PREVELANT opinion among many that want X and Trinity removed from the state championships. We need to be working on a way past that opinion.

Did you read through what I wrote with a determination to be offended?

 

I said, QUITE clearly, that this isn't my opinion. It is, however, the PREVELANT opinion amoug many that want X and Trinity removed from the state championships. We need to be working on a way past that opinion.

 

Then guess what. Too bad. We will never be able to prove our innocents, just like you will never be able to prove our guilt. Kick us out.

 

Silly us. We thought this was about how the publics could not compete b/c they:

1. Are not good enough

2. Don't have the numbers

3. Don't have the facilities

4. Don't have the coaches

5. Etc...

 

Why didn't you just come out and say you want to throw us out because we pay out players, get their parents jobs, etc.

Then guess what. Too bad. We will never be able to prove our innocents, just like you will never be able to prove our guilt. Kick us out.

 

Silly us. We thought this was about how the publics could not compete b/c they:

1. Are not good enough

2. Don't have the numbers

3. Don't have the facilities

4. Don't have the coaches

5. Etc...

 

Why didn't you just come out and say you want to throw us out because we pay out players, get their parents jobs, etc.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. YOU'RE COMING AFTER ME, when all I'm trying to do is get a dialouge going, trying to figure out how we can fix this! Because, honestly, if the people at BGP can't do it, there's no hope for the administrators to.

 

Are you hurt or angry that people are accusing your school of cheating? I'm sure you are. But trying to make Manual fans feel the same way, IS NOT going to solve anything. There are things we can do to affect this, but we need to be working together, not trying to tear each other down.

Thanks for the link. This is VERY INTERESTING!!!

 

“Students are selected to attend duPont Manual in a competitive process that evaluates achievement test scores, academic achievement, personal essays, teacher recommendations, as well as portfolios and performing arts auditions. Jefferson County residents are not charged tuition; however, tuition is charged for out-of-county students.”

 

I also see there is a Shadowing Program, and guess what. It’s ONLY FOR PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS.

 

So the requirements are:

1. Complete an application.

2. Write an essay answering “If you were to describe yourself by a quotation, which quotation would you select and why?”

3. Complete an activities and interest form. I wonder if Football, Soccer, etc receives special attention?

4. Have two people fill out a recommendation form. I guess if one is Coach Nichols, that would help.

 

Funny. I thought this was going to be hard to get into Manual. I wonder WHO is responsible to SELECTING what children are granted ADMISION to Manual? If I were a parent of a child that wanted to attend an actual magnet program, but that space was given to a child to attend “High School University” that listed football/soccer as an interest on their activity form, I’d be REAL upset.

 

Keep thinking your school is being cheated by those Catholic Schools. This stuff is really sad.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. YOU'RE COMING AFTER ME, when all I'm trying to do is get a dialouge going, trying to figure out how we can fix this! Because, honestly, if the people at BGP can't do it, there's no hope for the administrators to.

 

Are you hurt or angry that people are accusing your school of cheating? I'm sure you are. But trying to make Manual fans feel the same way, IS NOT going to solve anything. There are things we can do to affect this, but we need to be working together, not trying to tear each other down.

 

Funny - you're accusing us of cheating, and then you say we need to work together. Sure, when is the first meeting.

We don't agree that we can't compete, but there are advantages that the Privates have over the publics. Ie. Title 9, numbers ect. Those are real. Those are real reasons that the privates could be dominate, however the issues that are bringing this to a boil seem to be the unproven issues rumours and other things that should be able to cleared up. We are suggesting that those should be cleared up first and then we can start working on the other stuff.

Funny - your accusing us of cheating, and then you say we need to work together. Sure, when is the first meeting.

You aren't reading this thread right if that is what you are getting out of this discussion. We aren't accusing you of anything. We are pointing out ways to disprove accusations that are already pushing this issue.

We don't agree that we can't compete, but there are advantages that the Privates have over the publics. Ie. Title 9, numbers ect. Those are real. Those are real reasons that the privates could be dominate, however the issues that are bringing this to a boil seem to be the unproven issues rumours and other things that should be able to cleared up. We are suggesting that those should be cleared up first and then we can start working on the other stuff.

 

How do we clear something up that is not true when neither side can provide proof? When something is unproven, is being considered true, and is being used to push an agenda, it's pretty obvious the accusers wish only harm on the other side.

Thanks for the link. This is VERY INTERESTING!!!

 

“Students are selected to attend duPont Manual in a competitive process that evaluates achievement test scores, academic achievement, personal essays, teacher recommendations, as well as portfolios and performing arts auditions. Jefferson County residents are not charged tuition; however, tuition is charged for out-of-county students.”

 

I also see there is a Shadowing Program, and guess what. It’s ONLY FOR PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS.

 

So the requirements are:

1. Complete an application.

2. Write an essay answering “If you were to describe yourself by a quotation, which quotation would you select and why?”

3. Complete an activities and interest form. I wonder if Football, Soccer, etc receives special attention?

4. Have two people fill out a recommendation form. I guess if one is Coach Nichols, that would help.

 

Funny. I thought this was going to be hard to get into Manual. I wonder WHO is responsible to SELECTING what children are granted ADMISION to Manual? If I were a parent of a child that wanted to attend an actual magnet program, but that space was given to a child to attend “High School University” that listed football/soccer as an interest on their activity form, I’d be REAL upset.

 

Keep thinking your school is being cheated by those Catholic Schools. This stuff is really sad.

You are just making stuff up now, it is not JUST for private school kids!! I shadowed Manual from a PUBLIC SCHOOL. Interest and activities includes Boy Scouts, 4H, Girl Scouts and other interest. You are making something that is to show that the student is well rounded into sports because that is what you want to draw from it. Football and soccer DO NOT recieve special attention, but they do point to a well rounded student, same as Scouts or chess club. Joe Nichols CANNOT feel out the recommendtion form because he is not one of their teachers as is required as you conviently left out!

How do we clear something up that is not true when neither side can provide proof? When something is unproven, is being considered true, and is being used to push an agenda, it's pretty obvious the accusers wish only harm on the other side.

I JUST TOLD YOU HOW!! THE SYSTEM WOULD MAKE IT PROVEN!! THEN THERE WOULD BE NOTHING THE PUBLICS COULD POINT TO!!! THAT IS THE POINT!!! IF you aren't going to be part of the solution then you are part of the problem. WHY NOT SHOW THINGS ARE ABOVE BOARD IF THEY ARE!! THEN NO ONE COULD SAY ANYTHING!!

 

If now the system doesn't show to the publics that things are above board then you need a system that does.

Thanks for the link. This is VERY INTERESTING!!!

 

“Students are selected to attend duPont Manual in a competitive process that evaluates achievement test scores, academic achievement, personal essays, teacher recommendations, as well as portfolios and performing arts auditions. Jefferson County residents are not charged tuition; however, tuition is charged for out-of-county students.”

 

I also see there is a Shadowing Program, and guess what. It’s ONLY FOR PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS.

 

So the requirements are:

1. Complete an application.

2. Write an essay answering “If you were to describe yourself by a quotation, which quotation would you select and why?”

3. Complete an activities and interest form. I wonder if Football, Soccer, etc receives special attention?

4. Have two people fill out a recommendation form. I guess if one is Coach Nichols, that would help.

 

Funny. I thought this was going to be hard to get into Manual. I wonder WHO is responsible to SELECTING what children are granted ADMISION to Manual? If I were a parent of a child that wanted to attend an actual magnet program, but that space was given to a child to attend “High School University” that listed football/soccer as an interest on their activity form, I’d be REAL upset.

 

Keep thinking your school is being cheated by those Catholic Schools. This stuff is really sad.

Are you insane?

 

It IS hard to get into Manual. Not because you have to be able stand on your head and quote Virgil in Latin, but because it is a competitive application process- The BEST STUDENTS are selected from those applications. The essays and teacher recomendations are read, the test scores and grades are compared, and the BEST STUDENTS are selected.

 

And HSU IS a magnet program, a very real one. I knocked out an ENTIRE YEAR'S WORTH OF COLLEGE CREDIT through HSU.

You know what forget it. Trinity Alum you asked why we were not offering suggestions to help. This is why, we can't have a debate without this and it is not worth it to explain to every poster that comes into the debate midstream that we aren't accusing the privates of anything we are just trying to find middle ground to talk from. To me this is not worth it. If we can't debate on here without trading jabs then maybe this prop 20 thing will happen, if this is how the administrators are going to act too.

You are just making stuff up now, it is not JUST for private school kids!! I shadowed Manual from a PUBLIC SCHOOL. Interest and activities includes Boy Scouts, 4H, Girl Scouts and other interest. You are making something that is to show that the student is well rounded into sports because that is what you want to draw from it. Football and soccer DO NOT recieve special attention, but they do point to a well rounded student, same as Scouts or chess club. Joe Nichols CANNOT feel out the recommendtion form because he is not one of their teachers as is required as you conviently left out!

 

Get your facts straight ram95. The website says, and I quote:

"Shadowing at Manual is ONLY for Private School students in the 8th grade."

Admissions > Shadowing

 

So you are saying public school children can shadow. Is there a special “pass” they must attain first? Who selects the children that get to shadow? What is the criteria?

 

Why is Manual targeting Private School kids? I wonder how many private school children take the place of public school children? Who selects the children that get accepted? If I were a parent of a public school child that did not get “accepted”… LOL!!!!

Wow people from Manual have thin skins.

 

We have to prove that perceptions are incorrect and we're not supposed to get upset with all that is going on and all of the accusations and innuendos that have come up as a result of this yet when it is pointed out that many of the same perceptions that apply to private schools also apply to Manual the Rams here go ballistic. So be it, but don't blame us for the unfavorable light your school is being portrayed in here, blame your principal. You all say that you don't agree with Prop 20 but how many of you have actually stated that to Keepers? You don't like how your school is being portrayed here, have you made Keepers aware of what is heppening? There are many of us on the private side that believe regardless of what is proposed it will NEVER be good enough for the public school supporters of Prop 20, Keepers included. Why has Manual takes such ire for this? Does anyone really believe that if private schools are removed from state championship competition that schools like Atherton and Iroquois will suddenly start winning state championships? This proposal IMVHO will only directly help a very small number of schools and Manual is one of those. That is why many of us see Keepers as such a hypocrit and since she is the principal of your school, your school gets drug down with her. It's just a matter of perception.