Arizona had an idea to combat illegal immigration and now other states are boycotting their products and the federal government is threatening to take them to court.

 

Obama had a plan for healthcare and R's are still freaking out and marching to the tune of doom and gloom. But both got their plans in place, didn't they?

There's a difference between "plans" and "good plans". I'm assuming Bennett meant the latter.

There's a difference between "plans" and "good plans". I'm assuming Bennett meant the latter.

 

Frankly, I think Republicans need to come up with any kind of plans. They're operating under "status quo" mindset.

Again, not an idea. That's the goal. But ideas are what will win you elections.

 

So...Obama, as much as everyone loathes him, campaigned on healthcare reform, stayed with it like a pit bull, used a lot of his ideas, and it got pushed through. You may not like his ideas, but they were IDEAS. They accomplished 2 goals so far: One, he got elected in part because of the ideas he presented. Two, healthcare reform was achieved.

 

The time of "I promise to ________" without presenting any way of getting that accomplished isn't going to work anymore, and that's what Bennett means. People now will ask for the plan before they decide whether or not to support you.

 

I think Bennet's larger point was that when Republicans bring up specific ideas they are susceptible to being purged, which leaves Republicans talking in abstract, ideology-laden criticisms to avoid the scorn of the base. The Wyden-Bennet bill, proposed in competition to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, was widely praised on both sides of the aisle and could have been the current healthcare policy if Republicans had thrown their weight behind it rather than gambling that they could simply gum up the Democrats' favored options. But, it cost Bennet his job in the Utah primaries as he was labeled a sellout and not conservative enough. He's lamenting that one has to espouse full-bore conservative opinions on every issue to be a Republican as he doesn't consider that a possibility when formulating policy; it's become both simpler and rewarded to talk in abstract cliches.

I think Bennet's larger point was that when Republicans bring up specific ideas they are susceptible to being purged, which leaves Republicans talking in abstract, ideology-laden criticisms to avoid the scorn of the base. The Wyden-Bennet bill, proposed in competition to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, was widely praised on both sides of the aisle and could have been the current healthcare policy if Republicans had thrown their weight behind it rather than gambling that they could simply gum up the Democrats' favored options. But, it cost Bennet his job in the Utah primaries as he was labeled a sellout and not conservative enough. He's lamenting that one has to espouse full-bore conservative opinions on every issue to be a Republican as he doesn't consider that a possibility when formulating policy; it's become both simpler and rewarded to talk in abstract cliches.

 

Well, that's pretty much what I was trying to convey....but much more eloquently put. :lol:

Obama had a plan for healthcare and R's are still freaking out and marching to the tune of doom and gloom. But both got their plans in place, didn't they?

 

They did. However many people have some real concerns with the Healthcare bill, me included. Obviously, people also have concerns with Arizona's illegal immigration bill. I do not. Both sides have ideas for accomplishing talking points and right now Republican ideas aren't going to get much traction when both houses of Congress and the President are run by the Democrats.

How about these for some ideas:

 

1. Stop the oil leak in the gulf.

2. Secure the border.

3. Increase legal immigration.

4. Repeal Obamacare

5. Keep captial gains taxes at 20%.

6. Cut government spending back to levels seen 10 years ago.

7. Get out of the automobile business.

8. Get out of the banking business

9. Stop using unsound finanical policies in a failed attempt at social engineering.

10. Don't apologize for America Exceptionalism.

11. Treat Israel with respect.

12. Treat England with respect.

 

13. Term Limits

13. Term Limits

 

I agree with term limits. I also think that Senators should have longer than a 2 year term. As soon as they're elected, they begin campaigning for the next election, therefore ensuring that nothing worthwhile is done...only that they protect their butts.

I agree with term limits. I also think that Senators should have longer than a 2 year term. As soon as they're elected, they begin campaigning for the next election, therefore ensuring that nothing worthwhile is done...only that they protect their butts.

 

Senators have a 6 year term. Congress has 2 year terms. BTW, Obama was elected to the senate and basically ran for president the entire time he was being paid to be a US Senator.

How about this for specifics on "secure the border"

 

1. If you arrest an illegal alien for any reason, deport them. But first keep them in jail for two weeks before you deport them. Catch and release in the same day doesn't work. If you penalize them by detaining them for two weeks that might be enough of a deterent. (I am willing to pay for the extra cost.)

2. Enforce stiff fines and even jail time for persons who hire illegals. (Actually do this and not give lipservice to it.) I don't want to hear about not being able to tell if the person is an illegal alien. If you throw a few businessmen in jail who you were certain knew they were hiring illegals (and there are literally thousands if not millions of these businessmen), the rest of the business community will fall in line and the job market for illegals will dry up.

3. Explode the myth that you need to deport all 12 million illegals to eliminate the illegal alien problem. Simple math says if the number of illegals who die or are deported exceeds the number of new illegals entering the country the problem will eventually go away.

4. Create a website showing everywhere the fence is supposed to be built. Put a name and face for the bureaucrat who is responsible for each section. Rank each of these bureacrats from most effective to least effective in building the fence. Do not leave anyone off the list. Lets have some government accountability!

5. Make all border webcams available to everyone on the web. (I believe Texas is already doing this for some Texas webcams.) Use the power of the web so apparent illegal crossings can be reported and investigated.

6. Use competition to increase speed and reduce cost of building the fence. Award competive contracts to more than one border fence contractor. And make the size of the next contract dependent upon performance in the previous contract. For example, award 10 mile contracts to 2 different companies. The company that performs the best on their 10 miles gets 15 of the next 20 miles and the ther company only gets 5 miles. Publicize the results of the competitions.

7. Sign an executive order streamlining the environmental impact studies. Basically, force the EPA to prove that there is a problem in order to stop contruction instead of stopping construction if there might be a problem.

Senators have a 6 year term. Congress has 2 year terms. BTW, Obama was elected to the senate and basically ran for president the entire time he was being paid to be a US Senator.

 

My bad, I knew that. I'm trying to work and play at the same time. :lol:

How about this for specifics on "secure the border"

 

1. If you arrest an illegal alien for any reason, deport them. But first keep them in jail for two weeks before you deport them. Catch and release in the same day doesn't work. If you penalize them by detaining them for two weeks that might be enough of a deterent. (I am willing to pay for the extra cost.)

2. Enforce stiff fines and even jail time for persons who hire illegals. (Actually do this and not give lipservice to it.) I don't want to hear about not being able to tell if the person is an illegal alien. If you throw a few businessmen in jail who you were certain knew they were hiring illegals (and there are literally thousands if not millions of these businessmen), the rest of the business community will fall in line and the job market for illegals will dry up.

3. Explode the myth that you need to deport all 12 million illegals to eliminate the illegal alien problem. Simple math says if the number of illegals who die or are deported exceeds the number of new illegals entering the country the problem will eventually go away.

4. Create a website showing everywhere the fence is supposed to be built. Put a name and face for the bureaucrat who is responsible for each section. Rank each of these bureacrats from most effective to least effective in building the fence. Do not leave anyone off the list. Lets have some government accountability!

5. Make all border webcams available to everyone on the web. (I believe Texas is already doing this for some Texas webcams.) Use the power of the web so apparent illegal crossings can be reported and investigated.

6. Use competition to increase speed and reduce cost of building the fence. Award competive contracts to more than one border fence contractor. And make the size of the next contract dependent upon performance in the previous contract. For example, award 10 mile contracts to 2 different companies. The company that performs the best on their 10 miles gets 15 of the next 20 miles and the ther company only gets 5 miles. Publicize the results of the competitions.

7. Sign an executive order streamlining the environmental impact studies. Basically, force the EPA to prove that there is a problem in order to stop contruction instead of stopping construction if there might be a problem.

 

Alot of good ideas. The building of the fence would definitely put alot of unemployed to work. The Demcrats have always been big on public works projects, well that's a whooper of one.

I still say land mines + razor wire would be more effective than a fence.

Again, not an idea. That's the goal. But ideas are what will win you elections.

 

So...Obama, as much as everyone loathes him, campaigned on healthcare reform, stayed with it like a pit bull, used a lot of his ideas, and it got pushed through. You may not like his ideas, but they were IDEAS. They accomplished 2 goals so far: One, he got elected in part because of the ideas he presented. Two, healthcare reform was achieved.

 

The time of "I promise to ________" without presenting any way of getting that accomplished isn't going to work anymore, and that's what Bennett means. People now will ask for the plan before they decide whether or not to support you.[/QUOTE]

 

Doubtfull. The masses want sound bites and abstract promises. They don't pay enough attention to details for it to affect their vote. Obama presented no plans during his campaign, only general ideas.