October 28, 200520 yr Thanks for totally not answering and avoiding. That is exactly why you are dead wrong on vouchers. How did I not answer it? Vouchers are not intended to allow the private schools to totally replace public schools. They are a choice, not a requirement.So the premise of your post is faulty. And I am right on vouchers, they are coming and you can't stop it. FYI, I read in the CJ this morning about the fudging of graduation rates. It appears that you guys are doing even worse than we thought. I suggest that you guys admit you need help, support vouchers and give folks a choice.
October 28, 200520 yr How did I not answer it? Vouchers are not intended to allow the private schools to totally replace public schools. They are a choice, not a requirement.So the premise of your post is faulty. And I am right on vouchers, they are coming and you can't stop it. FYI, I read in the CJ this morning about the fudging of graduation rates. It appears that you guys are doing even worse than we thought. I suggest that you guys admit you need help, support vouchers and give folks a choice. Thank you for showing your bias. Oh, one last question since you did not answer it, how will the private schools manage manifestation hearings vs. expulsions? I would like to hear YOU answer the question.
October 28, 200520 yr A couple of points. First, vouchers using state or local money in Kentucky would require an amendment of the state constitution. Federal money would not face the same restriction. Second, I don't accept the premise that under a voucher program private schools must be operated in exactly the same way as public schools. If that is the case there is no reason to do it in the first place. If there are laws or regulations that are preventing success in some public schools, the solution is to change those laws or regulations, not expand those offending laws or regulations to private schools. I think that the problem is more one of money. If it is necessary to offer a public education to all students, that does not mean that it is necessary to offer that education in a setting that allows disruption of the school as a whole. There are alternative schools in some parts of the state. Puting them in every part of the state would cost a lot of money, but faced with disruption of the education of all students it seems to me to be worth the cost.
October 28, 200520 yr TA, private schools would not have to operate the same way but would have to comply with all things regulations. Or, as you suggest change the rules of the game. What is important to note by your comments is public schools are defined by many rules and regulations and some advocate the private schools would be better without the rules and you simply point out change the rules then see what happens. With tax money is accountability. Or, at least that is what everyone wants to hear.
October 28, 200520 yr Thank you for showing your bias. Oh, one last question since you did not answer it, how will the private schools manage manifestation hearings vs. expulsions? I would like to hear YOU answer the question. You continue to "not get it". The private schools would operate as they currently do. The introduction of a voucher wouldn't require the schools to accept anyone that they wouldn't already admit. Vouchers would allow some families that can't otherwise send their kids to a private school, do so if they felt the need.They would still need to apply to the school and be admitted. The students would have to obey the rules of the school. The money is generated by the taxpayers for the taxpayers, so why not give them some options in how to spent it. What are you so afraid of ?
October 28, 200520 yr TA, private schools would not have to operate the same way but would have to comply with all things regulations. Or, as you suggest change the rules of the game. What is important to note by your comments is public schools are defined by many rules and regulations and some advocate the private schools would be better without the rules and you simply point out change the rules then see what happens. With tax money is accountability. Or, at least that is what everyone wants to hear. I see a voucher system as very analogous to the aid to higher education. Much of that aid goes to private universities. There are certain restrictions that come with the aid, but they don't have to turn into public universities.
October 28, 200520 yr You continue to "not get it". The private schools would operate as they currently do. The introduction of a voucher wouldn't require the schools to accept anyone that they wouldn't already admit. Vouchers would allow some families that can't otherwise send their kids to a private school, do so if they felt the need.They would still need to apply to the school and be admitted. The students would have to obey the rules of the school. The money is generated by the taxpayers for the taxpayers, so why not give them some options in how to spent it. What are you so afraid of ? So if a student with special needs has a voucher, his chance at a private school can be denied? And that is OK?! :sleep: And you say, I do not get it?! Do you think your the first person to think this would actually have a chance and would work. Sorry.
October 28, 200520 yr So if a student with special needs has a voucher, his chance at a private school can be denied? And that is OK?! :sleep: And you say, I do not get it?! Do you think your the first person to think this would actually have a chance and would work. Sorry. You do realize that special needs kids can and do attend some private schools....
October 28, 200520 yr You do realize that special needs kids can and do attend some private schools.... Absolutely I do! However, your key word is "some" not all. You do know ALL public schools MUST accept special needs, regardless of circumstance?
October 28, 200520 yr Absolutely I do! However, your key word is "some" not all. You do know ALL public schools MUST accept special needs, regardless of circumstance? Understood, however, I think that maybe you're shortchanging the progress the private schools have made in accommodating as many as they can. I know of several schools with programs for learning disabilities. I know of some students who've attended with behaviorial disorders. I also know of those with physical handicaps that have attended. I grant you that it's possible none of the special needs may have been as profound as some you may see in public schools. But I want to make sure that there's no misinterpretation that the private schools only accept...for lack of a better word..."perfect" children. (For the record..."perfect children" is an oxymoron :lol:)
October 28, 200520 yr NCC has a program called Academic Enhancement and I bet if you would check it out a majority of Catholic High Schools have programs for kids with learning disabilities now .
November 1, 200520 yr X has the Excel program and Trinity (I've been told) has special programs also for academically challenged students. The advantages that the Privates have in these programs is the same point that Frances has been making on this thread. Disruptive students are not tolerated. These students can be perceived as special needs and grouped as such. Thus, further delaying academic progress. Like I have previously posted: My wife and I each had children through previous marriages. One set went to public and the other set went to private. They all go to private now. We work two jobs to fund this. The reason is one word....Behavior. The teachers in both systems were very competent and motivated. The opportunities to excel were present in both systems. The odds to succeed, however, were higher in the private system, because of the discipline. Disruptions are not tolerated. Rules and goals are set. We had numerous problems in the public system with 2 particular male (sex, not the H.S.) students disrupting my daughter's classes...The teacher showed great frustration in her ability to control the situation. The system was flawed not the teachers.
November 1, 200520 yr Absolutely I do! However, your key word is "some" not all. You do know ALL public schools MUST accept special needs, regardless of circumstance? Actually SS, I know of several children that were denied access to public schools due to their physical limitations. :sssh: But to be fair, I know it is not the norm. But it DOES happen. :thumb:
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