Hey - while we're at it, does anyone in here have a good pastry analogy?

 

It would be a crime not to use every course on the menu at least once in this debate!!

 

Salivating,

Frances

 

 

Let the public schools eat cake!

Let the public schools eat cake!

 

Frances

Hey - while we're at it, does anyone in here have a good pastry analogy?

 

It would be a crime not to use every course on the menu at least once in this debate!!

 

Salivating,

Frances

 

Bet you a dollar bill to a donut hole that the Board of Education doesn'tpass Prop 20.

OOOHHHH!! A tautology! I love it. Not quite as much as a conundrum, mind you, but slightly more than an enigma! Nicely done, Fastbreak. :thumb:

With friends like you, who needs enigmas?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

With friends like you, who needs enigmas?

Is it just me, or is that public education letting you down? I believe you misspelled "enemas". :thumb:

 

Frances

That would be more appropriate... must be my anemia... :lol:

That would be more appropriate... must be my anemia... :lol:

LOL - who are you kidding? I bought that anemone for you last Christmas.

 

Frances

It's not like it cost you "any money" you picked it up on your clown fishing expedition to "Iguana Key."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Double pun score is worth triple points...

Seriously though, the only reason I was focusing on the price of a private education was in response to your statement about "value". To me, the term "value" is a reference to the quality of something in relation to it's price. If you had used the term "quality" instead of "value", I would have left the money out of the equation.

Ironically, I chose VALUE because many, yourself included, forward the PRICE of private school tuition as one of the key reasons it is an inducement.

I would disagree with you here. The T-bone you buy at Ponderosa is, at best, what is referred to as "Select". The T-bone you purchase at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse is two grade levels higher - it is known as "Prime". Do they have the same nutritional benefits? Probably. Do they cook, smell, or taste the same? Not even close. To paraphrase the Papa John's commercial (that they had to take off the air): "Better Cows make Better Steaks". What does this have to do with this debate? See my comments above, regarding "Quality" and "Value".

:lol: I do agree that Ruth serves up some very fine hunks of beef. In making your point, you have affirmed the point I was implying, which is, it is not the fact that Ruth gigs folks for 40 bucks that makes her steak better. It’s the fact that Ruth carves up better cows. The same logic applies to public and private schools.

 

I’ve read many posts, yours included, that forward the PRICE of the tuition as the reason a private school education represents a stronger inducement than a FREE public school education. I contend that price has nothing to do with what is actually being delivered. Either it’s PRIME or it’s SELECT. The fact that someone is willing to pay $40 or $14,000 for a chunk of one or the other has nothing to do with the specific quality of the product or service rendered.

 

If the service provided by public and private schools is roughly equal in terms of educational merit as many contend, and I tend to agree, then the price of tuition is a non-issue. It doesn’t matter what someone might be willing to pay for one over the other, they provide equivalent results.

A fine question (where is the question mark?), but it begs a part of the question at hand - do private schools deliver the same product as public schools? The true answer to the question at hand is - some do, and some don't. The answer to your question (why is a private education attributed a value above a public school education?) - I don't necessarily agree that it is. The quality of either a private or public education varies greatly from one institution to another - no blanket statement can be made about either set of schools.

Here Frances… ? Just for you. I was tired earlier. :lol:

 

I completely agree with your view that no blanket statements can be made about either set of schools, which again affirms my assertion that since a good education can be had at both public and private schools, the relative value of tuition assistance versus totally free tuition is at best a very weak point.

I don't think the public schools are doing much bragging about that.

Nor was I implying that they should. I was merely grounding my assertion that I am not out to discredit a public school education since I B 1 and I have kids, whom I love dearly, in public schools. :thumb:

(Side note to others that are reading this - Fastbreak and I are good friends. He knows that I am only kidding him.)

Gentle reader beware… don’t let Frances’ beguiling nature and syrupy words mislead you. Frances is a cleverly disguised minion of the dark side… run away! :lol:

I've said this before, and I'll say it again - the biggest attraction (to me) that a private school has to offer is that they can (and do) reject problem kids. I also understand why some people are attracted by the religious aspect of many private schools. As for the advantage of receiving a superior education, that is the question at hand - do private schools truly offer a superior education? Short answer - some do, some don't. Same answer applies to public schools.

I fully agree that these are attractions, although I would personally rank religion considerably ahead of rejection of problem kids. In fact, I see the role of “certain” private schools as benefiting problem kids that public schools don’t have the time or inclination to assist.

 

I will update the list of reasons we’ve uncovered herein, shortly. :thumb:

Don't take this wrong LSU Rock, but I got a good laugh out of this one. What on earth would possess you to make such a statement?

 

This is a debate about private versus public educations - not a discussion of facism versus socialism. Surely we can all agree that an educated electorate is better than an uneducated populace. What we are discussing is "does one have an inherent advantage over the other?" I understand your view of public education... - but socialism? That would be hyperbole.

 

At any rate, I don't think that history will look back and regard publicly funded education in America as some sort of "Dark Ages" from which the world had to recover.

 

Frances

Don't worry Aunt Bea, history is a term that has many degrees. When my garbage disposal acted up last year the plumber ask me if it had a "history" of doing so. I didn't respond "why no, nothing as drastic and as monumental as a history, but it has done the same thing over a period of time". :lol: FYI, my discussion with SS moved on some time ago into public vs. private education and then on to taxes etc.

Frances

Don't worry Aunt Bea, history is a term that has many degrees. When my garbage disposal acted up last year the plumber ask me if it had a "history" of doing so. I didn't respond "why no, nothing as drastic and as monumental as a history, but it has done the same thing over a period of time". :lol: FYI, my discussion with SS moved on some time ago into public vs. private education and then on to taxes etc.

 

Thanks, LSURock.

 

I didn't want my post to sound as bad as it probably did, and I apologize if I came across a little too strong. I really did like the sound of that though. :thumb:

 

Frances

So, you really do not want a voucher program or not? Or is this simply a case of having your cake and eating it to? Which is it.

 

So far you have argued to close the private schools to prove some "point", then you said to keep such schools open and let them have "vouchers", now you claim education would improve if private schools got "half" of the funds.

 

To your last point, at least in NorKY the tuition charged by private schools is way more than half of what most of the public schools receive. More along the lines of 75% to 80% and that is without providing many programs. So are you now saying the private schools are currently overcharging? And if all the public schools quit how would the private schools build all these new classrooms and hire all these new teachers. Please, show us the way. :sssh:

 

The fact is I haven't advocated closing private schools. I was making a point. I think you knew that.

Secondly, why don't we try the vouchers and see if they work? Lets just see if anyone would use them. You guys claim that it costs around 8K to educate a student. Offer 4K in the form of a voucher and the county would save 4K for every student that accepts them. If the numbers in the publics drops the way I think it would, we could close some schools and consolidate thus saving even more money by reducing overhead. If no one accepts them as you predict, what have you lost? And no, the private schools aren't overcharging. The cost of the education actually exceeds the tuition and the difference is made up by private contributions. But sometimes that 4K would be more than enough to get certain families over the hump and able to afford private school for their child. Sounds like a WIN/WIN.

The fact is I haven't advocated closing private schools. I was making a point. I think you knew that.

Secondly, why don't we try the vouchers and see if they work? Lets just see if anyone would use them. You guys claim that it costs around 8K to educate a student. Offer 4K in the form of a voucher and the county would save 4K for every student that accepts them. If the numbers in the publics drops the way I think it would, we could close some schools and consolidate thus saving even more money by reducing overhead. If no one accepts them as you predict, what have you lost? And no, the private schools aren't overcharging. The cost of the education actually exceeds the tuition and the difference is made up by private contributions. But sometimes that 4K would be more than enough to get certain families over the hump and able to afford private school for their child. Sounds like a WIN/WIN.

 

And how would you house all the new students? And how would you hire all the needed teachers? And how would you get all the teachers and schools to be in compliance with the law? And how would you accept the management of manifestation hearings vs. expulsions? And how would you accept transportation obligations, day care obligations? It could go on and on. What you are really asking is give you the money without any accountability. That will never happen. AND, if you accept vouchers are you going to suggest the private school will unconditionally accept the student regardless of any issues? Yeah, right. :lol:

 

Also, for vouchers to even be considered, the law has to change and that will not happen.

And how would you house all the new students? And how would you hire all the needed teachers? And how would you get all the teachers and schools to be in compliance with the law? And how would you accept the management of manifestation hearings vs. expulsions? And how would you accept transportation obligations, day care obligations? It could go on and on. What you are really asking is give you the money without any accountability. That will never happen. AND, if you accept vouchers are you going to suggest the private school will unconditionally accept the student regardless of any issues? Yeah, right. :lol:

 

Also, for vouchers to even be considered, the law has to change and that will not happen.

Don't you worry your little head about any of that. There are competent people in charge that would work out those issues. People that have a track record of success. I have faith in their ability. We would be able to continue on as we always have because vouchers would allow the option to attend a private school not require it. What laws (I repeat, laws) don't private schools obey at the present time? If you are aware of any law breaking by private schools please contact the proper law enforcement agency. :lol:

FYI, vouchers are coming so you better get used to the idea.

Don't you worry your little head about any of that. There are competent people in charge that would work out those issues. People that have a track record of success. I have faith in their ability. We would be able to continue on as we always have because vouchers would allow the option to attend a private school not require it. What laws (I repeat, laws) don't private schools obey at the present time? If you are aware of any law breaking by private schools please contact the proper law enforcement agency. :lol:

FYI, vouchers are coming so you better get used to the idea.

 

Thanks for totally not answering and avoiding. That is exactly why you are dead wrong on vouchers.