While I think I agree, I can't be so sure. Faith is a big leap to me. I'm a firm believer that if I were raised in the Middle East I would believe Mohammed was a prophet. If I were raised Jewish I would believe Jesus wasn't the son of God. If I were from a long time ago and other lands I would believe in waiting for Egyptian "Gods" to come back or I would believe in Zeus. I'm just conflicted. The Old Testament is crazy in some parts. I'm not sure I want to believe in a God that would have said some of the stuff in the OT. I am starting to believe it may be a bit "wrong" to think everyone else is wrong about religion. I still think if there were no religion the world would be a safer and better place.

 

I respectfully disagree. I also know as well as you do that throughout history tyrants and madmen have used differences over religion as an excuse for hatred and war. But does that mean God approved of what they were doing (and still do)? No, not at all. When Peter attacked one of Jesus' opponents, Jesus rebuked him and warned, "All who draw the sword will die by the sword" (Matthew 26:52). Jesus' way is the way of love, not hate.

Have you ever discovered a group of people anywhere in the world who didn't have some kind of religious belief? I know I haven't which is why I believe in God. If God doesn't exist, why do so many people seek Him? God exists -- but so does evil, and so does Satan. If you were Satan, wouldn't you do everything in your power to confuse people and keep them from the one true God? And this is exactly what he does. The Bible warns us not to be like those who "exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator" (Romans 1:25). Throughout history evil men have used religion as an excuse for hatred and war, not love and peace—and tragically, the same is true today. Sadly, not everyone wants peace. Instead, some are driven only by power and greed, and they will hide behind anything (including religion) to deceive people and make themselves look righteous. The Bible's analysis is right: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9). This is why our greatest need is to have our hearts changed—and only God can do that, as we turn to Him in repentance and faith. God loves us, and He wants to forgive us and change us from within—and He will, as we open our hearts to Christ.

SSC, fair comment, interesting points. I guess you have to study some scripture and even then using what you have said the scripture is only true if you believe what is written. John 14:6 Jesus answers his disciples questions about the Father & heaven, where No one comes to the Father except thru me. As a Christian my goal is to go to heaven because some day my body or thru another event I'll pass away I see a promise of an after life.

 

The Old Testament is written in a way where I don't think a man could have made it up. 2nd Timothy 3:16..ALL scriptire is God breathed and is useful in our teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training.

 

I guess if I was born and raised in Kentucky, I'd be a Wildcat Fan. :idunno:

While I think I agree, I can't be so sure. Faith is a big leap to me. I'm a firm believer that if I were raised in the Middle East I would believe Mohammed was a prophet. If I were raised Jewish I would believe Jesus wasn't the son of God. If I were from a long time ago and other lands I would believe in waiting for Egyptian "Gods" to come back or I would believe in Zeus. I'm just conflicted. The Old Testament is crazy in some parts. I'm not sure I want to believe in a God that would have said some of the stuff in the OT. I am starting to believe it may be a bit "wrong" to think everyone else is wrong about religion. I still think if there were no religion the world would be a safer and better place.

 

 

That is a fallacious comment. The decrease in violence in the world throughout history would be minimal at best were there no religion. Most of the time that religion is cited as the cause of a conflict it is usually rooted in scarcity which makes people more inclined to listen to others be it religiously or politically motivated. Religion is often the guise of people manipulating the wants and needs of others to their own whims. Politics also has this same theme in regards to conflict. If there were no religions and all humans were atheists the only real difference you would see in my mind is that some would be more openly honest about why they are fighting.

I'm of the opinion that He indeed cares, but is just a passive observer. I envision Him sitting back in a big 'ol recliner in front of a huge bank of TV screens watching the stupid stuff we do and laughing His behind off.

It’s now my turn to state that I respect you Jim and certainly respect your right to your opinion. What follows is in no way an indictment of you personally, but a response to the concept of God merely as the Prime Mover, essentially asserting that God created everything, set it in motion and then became a passive bystander observing what we might make of things.

 

The chief argument against this concept is the very person of Jesus Christ.

 

If God were indeed nothing more than a passive observer, then Jesus Christ would simply have not been necessary. The fact that He is a part of our history and awareness indicates a God very much interested in being involved with us personally.

 

In this regard, God is actively invested in each of us… to the fullest degree possible… IF we permit Him to be. He is keenly aware of our needs… and fully capable of meeting them. I have no doubt that many of the things we do bring joy to God’s heart… just as I also know we do things that grieve Him and cause Him great sadness... not the least of which is our rejection of Him... our selfishness and our mistreatment of others.

 

Freedom bears a heavy burden, but if God loves each of us enough to die for our freedom… it must be something very special indeed. It’s up to each of us to embrace it or abuse it.

Edited January 7, 201016 yr by Fastbreak

That is a fallacious comment. The decrease in violence in the world throughout history would be minimal at best were there no religion. Most of the time that religion is cited as the cause of a conflict it is usually rooted in scarcity which makes people more inclined to listen to others be it religiously or politically motivated. Religion is often the guise of people manipulating the wants and needs of others to their own whims. Politics also has this same theme in regards to conflict. If there were no religions and all humans were atheists the only real difference you would see in my mind is that some would be more openly honest about why they are fighting.

 

Possibly, maybe even probably. It can be sugar coated any way people want, but a lot of conflicts have been b/c of religion and a lot haven't been. There would always be conflict. I wasn't trying to say there wouldn't be. That may have came off wrong.

It’s now my turn to state that I respect you Jim and certainly respect your right to your opinion. What follows is in no way an indictment of you personally, but a response to the concept of God merely as the Prime Mover, essentially asserting that God created everything, set it in motion and then became a passive bystander observing what we might make of things.

 

The chief argument against this concept is the very person of Jesus Christ.

 

If God were indeed nothing more than a passive observer, then Jesus Christ would simply have not been necessary. The fact that He is a part of our history and awareness indicates a God very much interested in being involved with us personally.

 

In this regard, God is actively invested in each of us… to the fullest degree possible… IF we permit Him to be. He is keenly aware of our needs… and fully capable of meeting them. I have no doubt that many of the things we do bring joy to God’s heart… just as I also know we do things that grieve Him and cause Him great sadness... not the least of which is our rejection of Him... our selfishness and our mistreatment of others.

 

Freedom bears a heavy burden, but if God loves each of us enough to die for our freedom… it must be something very special indeed. It’s up to each of us to embrace it or abuse it.

 

I'm of the opinion he hasn't been active in 2,000 years. It's really the only way I can reconcile things such as the Holocaust and other horrific events of those type. I just can't see how God can be active and allow 6 million Jews be slaughtered — especially when they're supposed to be "favored by God" — when all it would have taken is for Hitler to get shot and killed in WWI to halt it.

Isaiah 55:8:9, this verse states that God is God, and man is just that a man. We can't question God for what happens on earth. Seeing babies murdered before they get a chance to be born, kids getting sick, car accidents, man killing man, man killing ex wife, well you get it.

 

Man makes decisions with his 80+ life span, compare this to the ever lasting eternity. Where will Hitler spend this eternity/ Where will a Jesus believer spend it?

 

I see in the paper where someone loses their life, and it happens everyday, Jesus is the only Religious being that promises an afterlife compared to the other figures, he is trhe only one that was seen walking on earth after being killed.

More wars have been fought over WATER that any other thing in human history.

More wars have been fought over WATER that any other thing in human history.

 

Religion is vindicated...falsely accused.:lol:

I'm of the opinion he hasn't been active in 2,000 years. It's really the only way I can reconcile things such as the Holocaust and other horrific events of those type. I just can't see how God can be active and allow 6 million Jews be slaughtered — especially when they're supposed to be "favored by God" — when all it would have taken is for Hitler to get shot and killed in WWI to halt it.

Interesting choice of avatar to be making this specific point... Sgt. Schultz... :lol:

 

I certainly understand your sensitivity and concerns. Anyone who can argue that humans are basically good by nature and that evil does not exist is out of touch with reality. Just as evil clearly exists, goodness, grace and mercy also abound (often in the very same places evil seems rampant.)

 

I cannot begin to explain why God would choose to permit evil to not only exist... but to flourish in certain circumstances. All I know is that He is not unaware, He is not without a plan and a purpose, He will not forever permit evil to persist. By creating us in His image and bestowing His gifts (spiritual traits) upon us, I happen to believe He expects us to do something with them. Rather than asking, "How could God allow... (fill in the blank) to happen?" perhaps we should be asking, "How could we who believe in God and are blessed with His gifts allow... (fill in the blank) to happen?"

 

As far as the Jewish people being favored, or chosen by God... He did choose them to record and communicate His truths. He did choose them to be born unto, walk among, minister to, heal, bless and ultimately be rejected by. What greater honor could God confer upon any people? But just as it is with each of us on an individual basis… we have the freedom to choose whether to believe, accept and be obedient to God… or not. Unfortunately, (IMO) too many rejected Him then, and continue to do so today.

 

It’s like when my children were young and I had a huge golf umbrella. As long as they pressed in to me… stayed close… they were protected. If they moved where I moved, when I moved, they suffered far less than if they chose to be stubborn and do their own thing. They could blame me for letting them get wet… but it seems kind of foolish when they were the ones who chose to reject the protection I offered and go venturing out in the rain on their own.

 

My heart breaks for every life taken at the hands of Nazi murderers. It was a crime of overwhelming proportions. The sheer volume of abuse, atrocities and slaughter boggles the mind. I offer no excuse or justification for this. Hitler should have been stopped… by his parents, by his teachers, by his community, by his officers, by own people, long before he became the world’s problem. Out of the millions of lives ended or forever scarred… it still comes down to each individual life.

 

Where were they with God?

 

Where are they now?

 

Every life is precious. Every life has its own challenges, tragedies, potential blessings and consequences. For an all knowing, omnipresent, all loving God... how can one life at Auschwitz be any more or less valuable than a young girl who dies from an overdose in a crack house after a night of turning tricks with selfish and unloving men to support her habit? Or the wife abused by a cruel and selfish husband? Or the child molested by an adult or an older child who was also molested? Or the elderly person who dies alone and uncared for? Or the child murdered in his mother's womb before drawing his first breath? Or… or… or… Hitler's "solution" as evil as it was, merely concentrated and magnified in a way easy for us finite humans to point to. When all along, God is aware of equal evil, cruelty and abuse going on daily. In this regard, the holocaust continues. The fact that these atrocities are spread out and seemingly isolated does nothing to alleviate the evil and suffering experienced by each individual subjected to them.

 

And what about us?

 

Do we accept or reject Him? Are we willing to be obedient or rebellious… loving, kind, merciful and gracious… or cold, bitter, greedy and prideful? Do we judge and discard God because of the actions of misguided humans… or do we press in and try to touch Him on His terms?

 

Do we take the gifts He has provided us… health, talents, intellect, friends, family, material gain, kindness, gentle hearts, etc… and use them to bless others who desperately need to see God’s gifts in action… or do we take these blessings for granted and complain there’s not enough?

 

I am guilty of being selfish, prideful and a complainer. I disgust myself when I take a close look at who and what I am capable of being at times.

 

It’s easy to blame God… but I know better. :thumb:

Fastbreak, I feel compelled to say that I throroughly enjoy reading your posts on this topic. Your insight is not lost on me. :thumb:

Fastbreak, I feel compelled to say that I throroughly enjoy reading your posts on this topic. Your insight is not lost on me. :thumb:

I'm compelled to express my gratitude that someone actually took the time to read all that... :lol:

 

Thanks... :thumb:

I skimmed it FB...and it was ensightful.

 

A person loses a child due to car accident. What if they took a different route and the crash doesn't happen.

 

I was late for a softball game and was driving way too fast on a road and a person walked out in front of me, I swerved to miss him which brought my car head on to a pole.

 

When I swerved it caused me to go over to the other side where I hit my head against the passenger window. At that point no one is behind the wheel heading for the pole. I reached out with my hand and grabbed the wheel and grabbed with just enough force not to turn over and miss the pole.

 

Why didn't I die and get hurt? I was breaking the law 55 or so in a 25.

My laptop timed out...

 

To ask the question again, why didn't I die?

 

No way anyone can convince me otherwise, but God had a plan for me. I just know it, my reason might not have come to me yet, but I was real lucky.

 

I cried all the way home after stopping the car and thanking Jesus. And I believe God was there, and still do when I tell the story in person, but I wish I had the answer when someone loses someone way too soon.

Larry... it's been my personal experience that God has a special place in his heart for children and harmless knuckleheads... :lol:

 

I've said and done enough stupid things to fill three lives... I'm working on four now.

 

You are very fortunate indeed.

 

I have no doubt that God has bigger plans for you than you can imagine. Keep your ear turned to Him...