It's nothing like TO. TO isn't a convicted felon...he just has a big mouth. Big...big difference.

 

And it has nothing to do with being politically correct. It has to do with them not wanting someone like Vick on their team.

 

It is a big difference....T.O. ended up on the Bills:lol: and Vick on the Eagles. Seriously, who won out in this situation? The convicted felon or the big mouth?

Honestly, with the way Jackson ended the season, I don't know why they thought about Farve. I like Rosenfels, but I'd still take Vick. I don't know why the Vikings didn't look at Vick, but again, I really don't know why a lot of teams didn't take a hard look at him. Especially in San Fran.

 

I was just naming teams qb's off the top of my head. I am sure I could look at a list of the starting qb's and find 10 teams that he could start or in week 6.

 

You also didn't draft Hill as a starter, neither. We'll see how much you play him this year.

 

Really, you can't think of any reasons why teams would avoid Vick? No reason at all? :lol: The guy just got out of prison and is probably no where near game shape first of all. Secondly, it's already pre-season meaning he won't have much time to get in shape before the season starts. Oh...and he just got out of prison...did I mention that? Might have something to do with it.

 

It doesn't matter if I drafted Hill as a starter. My starter is David Garrard right now, I could very easily start Hill over him any week.

It is a big difference....T.O. ended up on the Bills:lol: and Vick on the Eagles. Seriously, who won out in this situation? The convicted felon or the big mouth?

 

I don't care. I'm saying teams avoided Vick and TO for different reasons. I don't like TO either, but he is nothing like Vick IMO. He's got a big mouth, but that is about it. Vick is a complete idiot who has tortured and killed God knows how many animals...how are those similar?

Not sure what fantasy football league you are talking about, but I'd take Hill over Vick any day of the week. As a matter of fact, I just took Hill in the 13th round of the BGP league, and Vick was available.

 

And I know Vick can still play. He can still play and probably run the ball well but continue to be an average passer. And I don't care how many teams were interested. 7 out of 32 isn't that good of odds. If he were this supernatural athlete like some think, I'd think teams with QB problems would be more interested. The Vikings practically begged Favre to come out of retirement, but did they even think about Vick?

 

Honestly, with the way Jackson ended the season, I don't know why they thought about Farve. I like Rosenfels, but I'd still take Vick. I don't know why the Vikings didn't look at Vick, but again, I really don't know why a lot of teams didn't take a hard look at him. Especially in San Fran.

 

I was just naming teams qb's off the top of my head. I am sure I could look at a list of the starting qb's and find 10 teams that he could start or in week 6.

 

You also didn't draft Hill as a starter, neither. We'll see how much you play him this year.

 

Really, you can't think of any reasons why teams would avoid Vick? No reason at all? :lol: The guy just got out of prison and is probably no where near game shape first of all. Secondly, it's already pre-season meaning he won't have much time to get in shape before the season starts. Oh...and he just got out of prison...did I mention that? Might have something to do with it.

 

It doesn't matter if I drafted Hill as a starter. My starter is David Garrard right now, I could very easily start Hill over him any week.

 

Teams with Majory QB problems probably avoided Vick because of his 6 game suspension. It is conditional, but if you are a team like the Vikings which should be in playoff contention, you really don't want to bring in a QB in week 6, and try to get to the playoffs and beyond. Sort of like how they didn't want Favre to only play 10 games or whatever.

I wonder if they will make these Jerseys available?

I don't care. I'm saying teams avoided Vick and TO for different reasons. I don't like TO either, but he is nothing like Vick IMO. He's got a big mouth, but that is about it. Vick is a complete idiot who has tortured and killed God knows how many animals...how are those similar?

 

Well, if we have to get on the animals killed discussion, I must ask....are you a vegetarian and do you hunt, like horse racing or fish?

 

Farm animals go through the same things when they go to the slaughterhouse. Race horses have been killed(euthanized) at race tracks, deers, turkeys, squirrels, etc are killed for sport, and anyone who fishes regularly has dirty hooked a fish at least once. Now, I ask you, I know dogs are "man's best friends", but these animals I mentioned are killed legally and are just as innocent as dogs. Me, myself, I don't see the difference.

 

And for the record, I love most dogs and have two beautiful Siberian Husky's.

 

 

I am done for today, I am taking my dogs for a walk with my wife.

I wonder if they will make these Jerseys available?

 

^^^ My buddy just said he's going to get one of the new Vick jerseys if they come out. Ironically, his nickname for the last few years has been "Beagle". What a coincidence!:lol:

Random thoughts...

 

To re-state, transitioning to an NFL WR isn't easy for guys who've played the position their whole football career. Michael Vick will never be a good NFL receiver. And, I'll go out on a limb and say no team will ever try to put him there in any kind of permanent move. They may line him up there for some special plays.

 

The Eagles have a QB. If you want to debate where Vick rated when he was a starting QB, have at it. But, it's not relevant to this debate. NFL teams typically don't have, nor are they looking for two top 10-15 QB's for their roster. Vick gives the Eagles quality depth at the QB position and he's a great athlete that could be used for some special packages. If McNabb is injured and has to miss a couple of games, Vick gives them a very good option to plug in short-term.

 

Other than from a PR perspective, there's no legitimate criticism for this move. It makes the Eagles a more talented team and they've got the veteran leadership on the team and the stability at head coach and in the front office to handle things from a PR standpoint.

Well, if we have to get on the animals killed discussion, I must ask....are you a vegetarian and do you hunt, like horse racing or fish?

 

Farm animals go through the same things when they go to the slaughterhouse. Race horses have been killed(euthanized) at race tracks, deers, turkeys, squirrels, etc are killed for sport, and anyone who fishes regularly has dirty hooked a fish at least once. Now, I ask you, I know dogs are "man's best friends", but these animals I mentioned are killed legally and are just as innocent as dogs. Me, myself, I don't see the difference.

 

And for the record, I love most dogs and have two beautiful Siberian Husky's.

 

 

I am done for today, I am taking my dogs for a walk with my wife.

 

Wow...

 

I'm not sure where to start. There is a HUGE difference in eating meat from a grocery store, and electrocuting, strangling, and drowning animals due to poor performance in an illegal dog fighting operation. If you can't see that, then there is no reason for me to discuss that anymore. Come on...you can't be serious in trying to make that connection?

 

I do not hunt. Ever. I don't like it. I do not fish either. I'm not against hunting or fishing, as long as the food caught is used and not just killed for no reason. I am however against the illegal fighting of dogs, and the murder of dogs that do not perform well. To even insinuate that there are any similarities in the things you've mentioned OTHER than the fact that animals are involved is flat out insane.

 

Horse racing is also not illegal. I'm no huge fan of it but I don't have a problem with it either as long as the animals are treated well. I've been to horse races and they seem to treat the horses very well when I've been there. I haven't seen any get electrocuted, hanged, or drowned for losing a race. While there are risks that the horse could get injured and possibly have to be killed, there is still a very big difference in putting a horse in a race vs. putting two dogs in a fight and then torturing and killing one if it loses. It's absolutely sickening.

 

BTW have you seen pictures of these dogs that he hurt? I have no respect for the man and I never will. This discussion is simply causing me to think about the things he did in more depth and probably fueling my dislike for him.

Random thoughts...

 

To re-state, transitioning to an NFL WR isn't easy for guys who've played the position their whole football career. Michael Vick will never be a good NFL receiver. And, I'll go out on a limb and say no team will ever try to put him there in any kind of permanent move. They may line him up there for some special plays.

 

The Eagles have a QB. If you want to debate where Vick rated when he was a starting QB, have at it. But, it's not relevant to this debate. NFL teams typically don't have, nor are they looking for two top 10-15 QB's for their roster. Vick gives the Eagles quality depth at the QB position and he's a great athlete that could be used for some special packages. If McNabb is injured and has to miss a couple of games, Vick gives them a very good option to plug in short-term.

 

Other than from a PR perspective, there's no legitimate criticism for this move. It makes the Eagles a more talented team and they've got the veteran leadership on the team and the stability at head coach and in the front office to handle things from a PR standpoint.

 

They have some veteran leadership, but they lost a lot of that leadership when Brian Dawkins left. As much as I dislike him as a player, I think he was one of their best veteran guys in the locker room. It's almost (not quite) like if Strahan left the G-Men before he retired. It isn't right...

Wow...

 

I'm not sure where to start. There is a HUGE difference in eating meat from a grocery store, and electrocuting, strangling, and drowning animals due to poor performance in an illegal dog fighting operation. If you can't see that, then there is no reason for me to discuss that anymore. Come on...you can't be serious in trying to make that connection?

 

I do not hunt. Ever. I don't like it. I do not fish either. I'm not against hunting or fishing, as long as the food caught is used and not just killed for no reason. I am however against the illegal fighting of dogs, and the murder of dogs that do not perform well. To even insinuate that there are any similarities in the things you've mentioned OTHER than the fact that animals are involved is flat out insane.

 

Horse racing is also not illegal. I'm no huge fan of it but I don't have a problem with it either as long as the animals are treated well. I've been to horse races and they seem to treat the horses very well when I've been there. I haven't seen any get electrocuted, hanged, or drowned for losing a race. While there are risks that the horse could get injured and possibly have to be killed, there is still a very big difference in putting a horse in a race vs. putting two dogs in a fight and then torturing and killing one if it loses. It's absolutely sickening.

 

BTW have you seen pictures of these dogs that he hurt? I have no respect for the man and I never will. This discussion is simply causing me to think about the things he did in more depth and probably fueling my dislike for him.

 

Fair enough, you have your opinion and I have mine. Each of the animals I previously mentioned are just as innocent as the dogs he killed, tortured, etc. Look, I completely understand if you are a dog lover, but cows, pigs, and poultry go through awful awful things to make it to our grocery store. Torture, electrocution, disgusting living conditions, etc just to make it to the grocery store. My question is, why are people so concerned with just how dogs are treated or have been treated by people such as Vick when animals all across the nation are treated just as awful, but since it is legal and "sold in grocery stores", it gets swept under the rug. PETA fights against these things daily. You can turn a blind eye because it's in the grocery store, but how they got there is just as revolting as the acts Vick committed against these dogs. Vegans and vegetarians have proven that it is not necessary or essential to survive on meat that is "sold in the grocery store". Dog and cat meat are "sold in grocery" stores in Asian countries and also sold as meals at some restaurants in Asia as well. Do you hate all Asians now also? The hypocrisy by people who hate Mike Vick is befuddling to me, but I also understand because dogs are so beloved here in America. Much more than cows or pigs or chickens or turkeys. Seriously, though, if dogs tasted like chicken or beef and we liked the way they tasted, they'd be sold in your local Kroger or Piggly Wiggly or Food Lion right next to the Angus steaks and chicken breasts. They should be grateful that they are an Asian choice of meat and that we Americans don't think they taste so good.

 

You say you aren't against hunting or fishing as long as the food is used...I know people who eat deer and deer chili, but they also have a stuffed deer head hanging in their living room. So, it's okay to hang the stuffed head of the deer as long as they eat the body of the deer?

 

The entire horse racing industry is puzzling, but just because we don't hear about the horses who are tortured, shot, put down, etc. because they can't perform does not mean that it isn't a common practice in the horse racing industry. Let's not forget the thousands of horses across the nation in race horses hotbeds such as KY, FL, and TX that are left uncared for and starve to death.

 

 

Other people have said the same thing you said....that it's insane to compare farm animals to the dogs, but I have yet to hear a good answer as to why it is so different. I assume because the dog is man's best friend so he gets special treatment from humans the other animals aren't fortunate enough to receive.

 

In a very contradictory way I say they are all God's creatures so why is one more important than the other? In the same breath, I also say, they are all animals, not humans, at the end of the day.

 

Don't mistake my argument. I am not for dog fighting, nor would I attend a dog fight. My beef with Vick is that he was stupid enough to jeopardize his future by doing knowingly doing something that was against the law. His participation in the dog fighting ring is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen a pro athlete do. For any pro athlete to knowingly break the law like Vick did is asinine. But, he paid his price and deserves a chance to move on with his life and hopefully show people such as yourself that he can be a model citizen in this great country of ours. I am hoping for the best despite his past indiscretions.

Fair enough, you have your opinion and I have mine. Each of the animals I previously mentioned are just as innocent as the dogs he killed, tortured, etc. Look, I completely understand if you are a dog lover, but cows, pigs, and poultry go through awful awful things to make it to our grocery store. Torture, electrocution, disgusting living conditions, etc just to make it to the grocery store. My question is, why are people so concerned with just how dogs are treated or have been treated by people such as Vick when animals all across the nation are treated just as awful, but since it is legal and "sold in grocery stores", it gets swept under the rug. PETA fights against these things daily. You can turn a blind eye because it's in the grocery store, but how they got there is just as revolting as the acts Vick committed against these dogs. Vegans and vegetarians have proven that it is not necessary or essential to survive on meat that is "sold in the grocery store". Dog and cat meat are "sold in grocery" stores in Asian countries and also sold as meals at some restaurants in Asia as well. Do you hate all Asians now also? The hypocrisy by people who hate Mike Vick is befuddling to me, but I also understand because dogs are so beloved here in America. Much more than cows or pigs or chickens or turkeys. Seriously, though, if dogs tasted like chicken or beef and we liked the way they tasted, they'd be sold in your local Kroger or Piggly Wiggly or Food Lion right next to the Angus steaks and chicken breasts. They should be grateful that they are an Asian choice of meat and that we Americans don't think they taste so good.

 

Each of the animals mentioned before are "innocent" animals, but the animals that are used for food die a necessary death. They are used for the benefit of humans. I have NEVER said I'm okay with HOW some of them are killed. I've seen videos on the things cows, chickens, etc. go through and I think it is horrible. I understand that it is necessary that those animals die, but the reason I didn't bring that up in this discussion is because this thread is dedicated to the idiot known as Michael Vick. Who did not kill animals for the good of mankind. He killed animals because they didn't make him any money. He put them in a cage and forced them to fight other animals, and if they didn't do good enough, he tortured and murdered them. This thread is not about the meat/chicken industry in the United States. It is about Ron Mexico.

 

As for Asian countries doing similar things...again that is for another discussion. This one is about Vick. If you go start a thread about the mistreatment of animals in the P&R forum I'll be right there by your side agreeing with everything. I eat meat, but that doesn't mean I think the animals should be tortured before they are killed. I think they should be treated good before their death, not stuck in a small cage forced to live in their own excrement. But again, I'll stop here on that because that is for another thread.

 

You say you aren't against hunting or fishing as long as the food is used...I know people who eat deer and deer chili, but they also have a stuffed deer head hanging in their living room. So, it's okay to hang the stuffed head of the deer as long as they eat the body of the deer?

 

If the person who killed the deer, stuffed the deer, they probably used every single part of the deer. They probably ate the meat or gave it away, and I have no problem with that. Hunting is a major sport in our nation and while I'm not big on killing defenseless animals with a firearm...I'm not going to tell someone else how to live their life. It's not against the law in this country...dog fighting and murdering a dog is against the law. So again, there is a huge difference in hunting and murdering an animal via electrocution/hanging/drowning. Come on...

 

The entire horse racing industry is puzzling, but just because we don't hear about the horses who are tortured, shot, put down, etc. because they can't perform does not mean that it isn't a common practice in the horse racing industry. Let's not forget the thousands of horses across the nation in race horses hotbeds such as KY, FL, and TX that are left uncared for and starve to death.

 

I seriously doubt there are tortured, shot or put down horses because they do not perform. Horse owners generally have tons of money invested in their horses and from what I've seen, the horses are treated very well. Horses that are left for dead to starve to death are usually not the horses that race at places like Keeneland, or at the Derby. Those who leave horses left to starve should pay. I've never claimed or insinuated otherwise, have I? And about your insinuations that some horses are probably tortured or killed for not performing, like Vick did to his dogs...if you can prove it I'll be against it. I've never heard anything ever insinuating that it happens though. I don't think it does.

 

Other people have said the same thing you said....that it's insane to compare farm animals to the dogs, but I have yet to hear a good answer as to why it is so different. I assume because the dog is man's best friend so he gets special treatment from humans the other animals aren't fortunate enough to receive.

 

In a very contradictory way I say they are all God's creatures so why is one more important than the other? In the same breath, I also say, they are all animals, not humans, at the end of the day.

 

Don't mistake my argument. I am not for dog fighting, nor would I attend a dog fight. My beef with Vick is that he was stupid enough to jeopardize his future by doing knowingly doing something that was against the law. His participation in the dog fighting ring is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen a pro athlete do. For any pro athlete to knowingly break the law like Vick did is asinine. But, he paid his price and deserves a chance to move on with his life and hopefully show people such as yourself that he can be a model citizen in this great country of ours. I am hoping for the best despite his past indiscretions.

 

I'm not saying it's insane to compare farm animals to dogs. I have said in this post that I do not agree with any animal that is tortured. I think it's terrible and should not happen. However their was absolutely no reason for the animals Vick killed to be killed. He used them for monetary gain or for pleasure and then when they didn't do what he wanted, he hung them, smashed their heads against concrete, and drowned them. I'm not saying that torture is okay for one and not for the other. I'm saying it's insane to compare the killing of farm animals for FOOD to the murder of innocent dogs because they didn't fight good enough. That's sick.

 

I don't care that Vick is getting his second chance. But I don't have to respect or like the guy. I don't have to root for him. I'll root for someone who hasn't done something as sickening as him. I don't want someone like him to succeed...I want good people to succeed. And I don't think 2 years in prison made Vick a good person.

Each of the animals mentioned before are "innocent" animals, but the animals that are used for food die a necessary death. They are used for the benefit of humans. I have NEVER said I'm okay with HOW some of them are killed. I've seen videos on the things cows, chickens, etc. go through and I think it is horrible. I understand that it is necessary that those animals die, but the reason I didn't bring that up in this discussion is because this thread is dedicated to the idiot known as Michael Vick. Who did not kill animals for the good of mankind. He killed animals because they didn't make him any money. He put them in a cage and forced them to fight other animals, and if they didn't do good enough, he tortured and murdered them. This thread is not about the meat/chicken industry in the United States. It is about Ron Mexico.

 

As for Asian countries doing similar things...again that is for another discussion. This one is about Vick. If you go start a thread about the mistreatment of animals in the P&R forum I'll be right there by your side agreeing with everything. I eat meat, but that doesn't mean I think the animals should be tortured before they are killed. I think they should be treated good before their death, not stuck in a small cage forced to live in their own excrement. But again, I'll stop here on that because that is for another thread.

 

 

 

If the person who killed the deer, stuffed the deer, they probably used every single part of the deer. They probably ate the meat or gave it away, and I have no problem with that. Hunting is a major sport in our nation and while I'm not big on killing defenseless animals with a firearm...I'm not going to tell someone else how to live their life. It's not against the law in this country...dog fighting and murdering a dog is against the law. So again, there is a huge difference in hunting and murdering an animal via electrocution/hanging/drowning. Come on...

 

 

 

I seriously doubt there are tortured, shot or put down horses because they do not perform. Horse owners generally have tons of money invested in their horses and from what I've seen, the horses are treated very well. Horses that are left for dead to starve to death are usually not the horses that race at places like Keeneland, or at the Derby. Those who leave horses left to starve should pay. I've never claimed or insinuated otherwise, have I? And about your insinuations that some horses are probably tortured or killed for not performing, like Vick did to his dogs...if you can prove it I'll be against it. I've never heard anything ever insinuating that it happens though. I don't think it does.

 

 

 

I'm not saying it's insane to compare farm animals to dogs. I have said in this post that I do not agree with any animal that is tortured. I think it's terrible and should not happen. However their was absolutely no reason for the animals Vick killed to be killed. He used them for monetary gain or for pleasure and then when they didn't do what he wanted, he hung them, smashed their heads against concrete, and drowned them. I'm not saying that torture is okay for one and not for the other. I'm saying it's insane to compare the killing of farm animals for FOOD to the murder of innocent dogs because they didn't fight good enough. That's sick.

 

I don't care that Vick is getting his second chance. But I don't have to respect or like the guy. I don't have to root for him. I'll root for someone who hasn't done something as sickening as him. I don't want someone like him to succeed...I want good people to succeed. And I don't think 2 years in prison made Vick a good person.

 

Fair enough. You make good points. I definitely agree that what Vick did was indefensible and I will not defend him for dog fighting. The dog fighting didn't touch a nerve with me as much as it did with a lot of people. My beef was that he knowingly broke the law, regardless of the crimes he committed. Show a little sense is all I ask of pro athletes. This was absolutely ridiculous on his part.

 

I don't expect everyone to root for him. Put me in the camp who thinks he paid his debt and is ready to move on and see if he can once again succeed in the NFL. I do think because he is still young that he does and can have some good in him. Some people have to go through things such as prison and public humiliation and scorn in order to see the error in their ways and that the life they were living was a completely empty and God-less life. I feel with people like Tony Dungy around him as opposed to the dog fighting "associates" of his, he can only have good things in his future. Dungy is no dummy and I think if Vick was fake, he'd see right through him. I have always referred to myself as a hopeless optimistic because I always think things will get better. I am rooting for Vick and his future. I hope things are better this time around.

 

Lastly, the depth of his talent is a major reason he actually got a chance to return to the NFL. If this were someone like say.....Vincent Jackson:D who had gone to jail for dog fighting, he wouldn't be returning to the NFL. Vick may not have been more than an average qb who can't throw in your eyes, but the fact that goes to jail for 2 years, gets released in July and signs with a team in August is a testament to his talent and how the NFL regards him as one of the most talented athletes to ever play in the NFL. Love him or hate him, he has a God given athleticism that many of us may never see again. I am glad he gets to use the tools that God gave him in a positive way. At least, I hope this time around he uses them in a positive way.

I couldn't make myself root for him. I don't think he is a good person. I don't care if he succeeds or not...I just know I won't be supporting him. I know that means nothing...it's just my opinion on the matter.

Yikes