The Reds were never going to "win big" this year ... they have too many issues.

 

Why can't a team trade their ace and improve their future because of it? Other teams do it ... why can't the Reds?

 

Again, I never claimed that the Reds had to trade him. They simply needed to explore the market for him ... kind of like Toronto is doing now with Halladay.

 

The Reds should take advantage of the Halladay market. Toronto's asking price is ridiculously high. Cincinnati can ask too high, yet be more affordable than Halladay.

 

To answer your question: The Reds can trade their ace. I think they've made a commitment to pitching & have realized that 2010 is their best bet. Nobody knew Jay Bruce would hit .212 but everybody knew the kid wouldn't hit .300. Personally, I like the pitching staff. I'd like to bring up another starter & move Owings to the bullpen. From there he'll be able to get better AB's, too.

The Reds should take advantage of the Halladay market. Toronto's asking price is ridiculously high. Cincinnati can ask too high, yet be more affordable than Halladay.

And who do the Reds have that can bring in significant young talent?

 

Harang was a pretty good commodity on the pitching market about 14 months ago ... not so much now. That ship has sailed.

And who do the Reds have that can bring in significant young talent?

 

Harang was a pretty good commodity on the pitching market about 14 months ago ... not so much now. That ship has sailed.

 

Bronson has 16 straight shutout innings. He'll garner some interest.

 

Arthur Rhodes & David Weathers have value.

Bronson has 16 straight shutout innings. He'll garner some interest.

 

Arthur Rhodes & David Weathers have value.

"Some interest?" ... that's hardly anything that's going to bring in an impact young talent. None of those guys are going to bring in that kind of player.

 

Arroyo has a 5.07 ERA and allows 10 hits and nearly two homers per nine innings, and he's owed at least $11 million next season. Rhodes and Weathers are 39-year-old relievers.

 

It ain't happening.

Edited July 21, 200917 yr by westsider

"Some interest?" ... that's hardly anything that's going to bring in an impact young talent. None of those guys are going to bring in that kind of player.

 

Arroyo has a 5.07 ERA and allows 10 hits and nearly two homers per nine innings. Rhodes and Weathers are 39-year-old relievers.

 

It ain't happening.

 

:notworthy: I think they've got some value. I don't know how much, but teams will overpay for relief. And Rhodes & Weathers are quality relievers.

You commented on the Reds taking advantage of the "Halladay market" ... except the Reds have no veterans that have anything resembling that kind of value on the open market.

:notworthy: I think they've got some value. I don't know how much, but teams will overpay for relief. And Rhodes & Weathers are quality relievers.

When was the last time a one-inning set-up man in his late 30s was traded during a pennant race for what turned out to be a truly good young player?

 

I'll stipulate Larry Andersen for Jeff Bagwell, but that was nearly 20 years ago.

How about Julio Lugo? He was DFA by Boston & would help out up the middle. Another RH bat, albeit not much of one.

How about Julio Lugo? He was DFA by Boston & would help out up the middle. Another RH bat, albeit not much of one.

He's 33 years old and just got released outright by a team that's playing Nick Green at shortstop, plus he's made 23 errors in his last 113 games there over two seasons.

 

I can't wait until AverageJoesGym sees that post ... :lol:

When was the last time a one-inning set-up man in his late 30s was traded during a pennant race for what turned out to be a truly good young player?

 

I'll stipulate Larry Andersen for Jeff Bagwell, but that was nearly 20 years ago.

 

The Reds aren't going to be getting a Jeff Bagwell type player. I've never had those expectations for any of current roster.

 

Just looking at Dave Dombrowski's trades, he sent Matt Mantei in July of '99 to the D'Backs for Brad Penny, Abraham Nunez & Vladimir Nunez. Don't think either Nunez is in the show anymore, although I'm pretty sure Abraham made it. Regardless, we all know Brad Penny.

 

Later that July he sent Livan Hernandez to the Giants for Nate Bump & Jason Grilli, two guys I've never heard of.

 

Jeff Weaver & cash traded for Carlos Pena, Franklyn German & Jeremy Bonderman in a 3 team trade on July 5, 2002.

 

Ivan Rodriguez being traded for Kyle Farnsworth would be the closest example, although Farnsworth was only 32.

He's 33 years old and just got released outright by a team that's playing Nick Green at shortstop, plus he's made 23 errors in his last 113 games there over two seasons.

 

I can't wait until AverageJoesGym sees that post ... :lol:

 

I can live with the marginal D. The Reds need a bat.

Just looking at Dave Dombrowski's trades, he sent Matt Mantei in July of '99 to the D'Backs for Brad Penny, Abraham Nunez & Vladimir Nunez. Don't think either Nunez is in the show anymore, although I'm pretty sure Abraham made it. Regardless, we all know Brad Penny.

Mantei was a 25-year-old closer, and a pretty darn good one, at the time of the trade.

Later that July he sent Livan Hernandez to the Giants for Nate Bump & Jason Grilli, two guys I've never heard of.

 

Jeff Weaver & cash traded for Carlos Pena, Franklyn German & Jeremy Bonderman in a 3 team trade on July 5, 2002.

Hernandez and Weaver were starters ... at the time of his deal, Weaver was 25.

Ivan Rodriguez being traded for Kyle Farnsworth would be the closest example, although Farnsworth was only 32.

Rodriguez was 36 and released at the end of the year.

 

None of your examples are comparable to Weathers and Rhodes.

Per Hal McCoy...

Asked if he talked to Phillips about it, Baker said, “Hey, man, we’ve all talked to Brandon about stuff like this until we’re blue in the face. Evidently, this must have started long before I got here. That was a rally killer right there. All you can ask is for a guy to hustle. That’s not too much to ask. Just hustle.”

That right there makes Dusty look incompetent.

So Dusty if he defies you again and again, you think he might deserve to sit a few games?

How many other managers would allow this to continually to happen?

Something like this would be a much better course for the Reds to pursue than to deal away any prospects for what is probably a pipe dream of making a run at the division this season. One bat won't do it, they also need a leadoff hitter and probably a shortstop (unless anyone wants to bet on Gonzo finishing the season). If Volquez and Bruce were back healthy and ready to go I'd say give it a shot but even if they're back in two weeks it will probably be too late. I'd rather keep their core and prospects and see what they can do next year.

 

I totally agree w/ you. I would trade Harang for anything right now just to get out of his contract. If they can get rid of him or Arroyo it would be great. I would like to see Cordero moved as well. He's been fantastic, but he makes too much money. I could live w/ Cueto, Bailey, Volquez, either Arroyo or Harang, and Owings next year. Then they would have some money to get some help at SS, C, and OF. They also need to figure out how to get Votto locked up.

Sit Phillips sorry hind end. Looks like he is following in Griffeys foot steps. Major problem is that he has never put up HOF numbers. Dusty needs to sit him a day or two. A fine doesnt bother guys making millions.