Good post!

 

It's too bad but malicious contact (if that's what blue ruled) is an ejection, always. And you're right, the fans probably would be ambarassed by their behavior.

It's too bad but malicious contact (if that's what blue ruled) is an ejection, always. And you're right, the fans probably would be ambarassed by their behavior.

 

I'm sure he made the call because you have to slide and he came in with his shoulder lowered. But, like I said it wasn't an attempt to run over the catcher, if it was, he needed to put a bunch more into it!

Kudos and congrats to Harrison County a very good ball club. I was sitting next to Beechwoods bench first row facing home plate. I neve saw a punch thrown by anyone. It was a bam-bam play and both player's ended up on the ground. However, the runner that took the catcher out should have been out before comming home since he left the field of play and was standing by the doug out when his coach yelled for him to get back to third then sent him home. All in all a good game and again Congrats to the Harrison County team and also Beechwood. They will be back again and as this Beechwood team mature's will be tought to recond with. Good Luck to Harrison County in the final eight at State. JD

:ohbrother:

 

First and second, 1 out. Beechwood attempts to turn a double play. SS clearly missed 2nd base and the 2nd base umpire (4 MAN CREW, btw) points at the base and SIGNALS "safe".

The runner on 2nd base was nearly to warning track in front of the 3rd base dugout and the 1st baseman rolled the ball to the pitchers mound when many fans and coaches realized the inning was not over. The runner also had taken off his batting helmet (umpires, could he not have been called out for leaving the baseline AND taking off his helmet?).

When HC's coaches yelled at him to get back to 3rd base, he tried to but the SAFE RUNNER from 1st was already rounding 2nd base and heading to 3rd. BW threw the ball to 3rd base, the third baseman was confused and hesitated, as the runner was almost back to 3rd base, he saw his own man coming to 3rd base. So, he decided to head home. The 3rd baseman, still confused, hesitated again but finally threw the ball home. The catcher jumped for the ball and was run into by the runner. He was about 5 feet up the 3rd baseline when contact was made. Tough call. Could have gone either way. By the rule, it was probably the right call because the runner was close enough to where he should have been sliding.

One BW coach ran out to the edge of the dirt circle at home plate to argue the call from the bench. He was restricted to the dugout and later tossed from the game. The benches DID NOT clear. NO PUNCHES were thrown. There were several players from each team in front of their respective dugouts because they assumed the inning was over. No other players or coaches made much of a fuss about anything or acted inappropriately. Coach W was upset with the call and argued briefly and I don't think anyone can fault him for that because it was such a close call and carries a hefty penalty.

Harrison County has a nice team, played very well, and definitely deserves to move on. As someone else mention about having a video....THAT would be eye-opening.... "You stay classy Thoroughbred fans!"

Congratualations to Harrison County keep on going boys make the 10th region proud.

 

Beechwood great job no one thought you would be here.

 

To be honest I don't think it would have mattered if Cov Cath made it here either they would have probably lost in 2 games also. Harrison to strong for the 9th Region this year.

 

Isler for CCH was 13-0 this year. Harrison County would not have beaten him. That means Harrison County would have needed to beat CCH the other two games. They may have done that. But I would bet my house that Harrison County would not have beaten CCH two straight. It would have taken their absolute best to win 2 against CCH. Beechwood pulled a rabbit out of a hat beating CCH, and that can happen in one game in baseball. But don't take one huge upset and try to use that to project the outcome of a CCH/Harrison County 3 game series. As happy as I was to see Beechwood beat CCH, it is a shame that a CCH team clearly talented enough to win a state championship had an off night at the wrong time in the regional final.

The runner on 2nd base was nearly to warning track in front of the 3rd base dugout and the 1st baseman rolled the ball to the pitchers mound when many fans and coaches realized the inning was not over. The runner also had taken off his batting helmet (umpires, could he not have been called out for leaving the baseline AND taking off his helmet?).

 

You couldn't call the runner out of the baseline, because the baseline is not established untill a play is being made on the runner.

As happy as I was to see Beechwood beat CCH, it is a shame that a CCH team clearly talented enough to win a state championship had an off night at the wrong time in the regional final.

 

Champions don't have off nights when it counts.

No offense but Covington Catholics season is over. They had a great season but they are not one of the eight teams that are going to state. No matter what luck or off night it was, that is what baseball is about. Great teams come to play everyday and thats what the Breds did. Congratulations Beechwood on a tremendous year. If I stand corrected Covington Catholic was also that favorite last year and were beat out by Newport Central Catholic. Sounds like Covington Catholic should come to play more and stop overlooking teams during the post season. Good luck Breds at state. Represent Harrison County well.

You couldn't call the runner out of the baseline, because the baseline is not established untill a play is being made on the runner.

So you are saying if he went from second where he thought he was out to the dugout he would not be out of the baseline? I would beg to differ.JMO.

No offense but Covington Catholics season is over. They had a great season but they are not one of the eight teams that are going to state. No matter what luck or off night it was, that is what baseball is about. Great teams come to play everyday and thats what the Breds did. Congratulations Beechwood on a tremendous year. [b][/b]If I stand corrected Covington Catholic was also that favorite last year and were beat out by Newport Central Catholic. Sounds like Covington Catholic should come to play more and stop overlooking teams during the post season. Good luck Breds at state. Represent Harrison County well.

 

Yes indeed. :thumb:

And a very good Ryle team the year before. Not sure who the favorite there was but, Ryle moved on. CCH was loaded this year.

So you are saying if he went from second where he thought he was out to the dugout he would not be out of the baseline? I would beg to differ.JMO.

 

Why would that be any different than the play that Dunbar used to use where the runner on 1st base walked out into right field? The runner was never called out for being out of baseline then.

Tough judgement call by the home plate umpire on the Dye kid from Harrison County. The catcher WAS up the line about five feet or so and directly in the baseline. He jumped for the throw at about the same time that Dye arrived. I think Dye was unsure of what to do...the catcher wasn't where he usually would be...the throw requires the catcher to jump up to try and corral the throw.,,the pitcher is in the way as well....I really think he was between a dive and a slide in his own mind and just kind of did neither. I can guarantee you, the thought of barrelling over the catcher was not on his mind at all....I'd say Dye is about 5-5 and checks in at 130 pounds or so.

 

By the way, his punishment is SEVERE....TWO game suspension, NOT one. He won't play again this year until the State Title Game, if the Breds make it that far.

 

An unreasonably unjust punishment, especially considering the circumstances.

 

I was at the game and posted earlier comments. What a shame if suspended for two games. The kid as I said earlier was not aggressive at all. The play was botched by the 2nd base umpire when he failed to make a call at second base. The confusion started at that point. The play at home would have never happened. The Dye kid is getting a bad deal on this. I'm not for either team but I know when someone is trying to run someone over. In this case he had two beechwood player around the plate and he was trying to find an opening to get through. The collison wasn't that bad. The punishment is to severe.....I feel for the kid on this one.

Why would that be any different than the play that Dunbar used to use where the runner on 1st base walked out into right field? The runner was never called out for being out of baseline then.

 

He passed another base on the way to the dugout. Did he touch third?

There is no "out of baseline" issue involved in this play. As someone pointed out earlier, you cannot be "out fo the baseline" until someone is trying to make a play on you at which point the actual baseline is established.

 

Regarding the issue of the runner heading towards the dugout after thinking the inning was over, this rule seems to be very much a judgment call. The wording could support both an out call for being near the dugout or a no call depending on the judgment of the umpire.

 

Regarding the collision at the plate, the location of the catcher has no bearing on this play in regards to the contact issue. Again, its a judgment call and the judgment is based on whether the umpire believes the contact was both malicious and avoidable. Just because the catcher was "up the line" doesn't mean he's fair game. If he came up the line and then jumped up into the air to catch the high throw (as has been reported) then the runner could have still had time to slide (doubtful due to distance) or go around him. I'd argue that if the catcher was truly "up the line" that the umpire took that into account when trying to determine if the runner was "sliding." How many runners slide from that far out? Judgment call that will not be overturned by anyone.

:ohbrother:

 

First and second, 1 out. Beechwood attempts to turn a double play. SS clearly missed 2nd base and the 2nd base umpire (4 MAN CREW, btw) points at the base and SIGNALS "safe".

The runner on 2nd base was nearly to warning track in front of the 3rd base dugout and the 1st baseman rolled the ball to the pitchers mound when many fans and coaches realized the inning was not over. The runner also had taken off his batting helmet (umpires, could he not have been called out for leaving the baseline AND taking off his helmet?).

When HC's coaches yelled at him to get back to 3rd base, he tried to but the SAFE RUNNER from 1st was already rounding 2nd base and heading to 3rd. BW threw the ball to 3rd base, the third baseman was confused and hesitated, as the runner was almost back to 3rd base, he saw his own man coming to 3rd base. So, he decided to head home. The 3rd baseman, still confused, hesitated again but finally threw the ball home. The catcher jumped for the ball and was run into by the runner. He was about 5 feet up the 3rd baseline when contact was made. Tough call. Could have gone either way. By the rule, it was probably the right call because the runner was close enough to where he should have been sliding.

One BW coach ran out to the edge of the dirt circle at home plate to argue the call from the bench. He was restricted to the dugout and later tossed from the game. The benches DID NOT clear. NO PUNCHES were thrown. There were several players from each team in front of their respective dugouts because they assumed the inning was over. No other players or coaches made much of a fuss about anything or acted inappropriately. Coach W was upset with the call and argued briefly and I don't think anyone can fault him for that because it was such a close call and carries a hefty penalty.

Harrison County has a nice team, played very well, and definitely deserves to move on. As someone else mention about having a video....THAT would be eye-opening.... "You stay classy Thoroughbred fans!"

 

JBC,

I have read the numerous posts on this thread regarding the play (including yours). Due to misconceptions by some of the posters regarding rule application to the situation, I thought I would post some clarifications from an umpire's perspective.

1. I know the plate umpire in this game personally and he is an excellent umpire. I was not there personally but I'm sure that he got the call right. The key for an umpire is "did the runner have time to read the situation and avoid the contact?" . When a runner makes a conscious decision to go into the fielder with a lowered shoulder, it is malicious regardless of the speed that it occurs. If the arrival of the ball and the runner occur simultaneously, the runner will typically put out his hands/arms to "brace for impact". He does not lower his shoulder.

2. By accepting your detailed post as fact,the runner at 2nd that was safe intially could have been called out for abandonment. However, that is a judgement call. A batter who can run on a dropped third strike but doesn't initially cannot be called out until he has entered the dugout. He can head to first at anytime before that point. Runners already on the bases can be called out if they obviously abandon the right to proceed. They are not protected until they enter the dugout.

#3. Malicious contact always supersedes obstruction. Bottom line, being obstructed does not give the runner the right to clear a path to the base they are trying to acquire. They must go around the obstruction. It is up to the umpire to determine if the obstruction causes the runner to be called out. If that happens (runner called out after being obstructed), he calls time and awards the runner the base.

#4 A runner cannot be called out for removing his helmet during a live ball situation. A warning is issued and the next offender for that team is ejected. The ejected runner is replaced and no out is called.

#5 Runners are never required to slide. However, if they do slide, it must be a legal slide.

#6 The base coach for Beechwood was ejected for charging an umpire. NOTE: New rule in Kentucky this year, if an assistant coach is ejected; the head coach is restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game.

 

Clyde has already stated most of the above points but I thought that a second opinion on the numerous issues raised couldn't hurt...

#4 A runner cannot be called out for removing his helmet during a live ball situation. A warning is issued and the next offender for that team is ejected. The ejected runner is replaced and no out is called.

 

Is this warning given to the player, coach, or both?

Do both teams get a warning or is the first warning for both teams?