Obama and Education

 

At least regarding merit pay and charter schools.

Obama and Education

 

At least regarding merit pay and charter schools.

 

How about we tie mom and dad's welfare pay to their child's education and test scores?

 

If this happens, I will ask for a transfer out of alternative school with my pay tied to the student's test scores. I will need to worry about providing for my family instead of trying to help these students out and turning their life around. I will not be able to worry about them when I have a family of my own to provide for.

 

I guess we need to tie social workers pay to whether their cases turn their lives around.

 

I guess we need to tie lawyers pay to whether they get their client off or not.

 

I guess we need to tie police officers pay to whether the criminal is found guilty or not.

 

I guess we need to tie doctor's pay to whether their patient dies or not.

 

Those students' classrooms who have supportive home lives that make sure they get their homework done and support education and the teacher actually has little to do with their academic success willl be plumb and competitive jobs. And the kids who do not have that home life will once again get the leftovers instead of them needing the great teachers.

I see both sides of the merit pay issue. I do support the elimination of tenure at all levels of government, including teacher tenure. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other job that has tenure.

I see both sides of the merit pay issue. I do support the elimination of tenure at all levels of government, including teacher tenure. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other job that has tenure.

 

Agree with this!!!! If you don't have to work to keep "earning" your job it brings complacency!

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I know very few teachers in the school district my parents have both taught in for 20+ plus years that don't bust their tails day in and day out over the dumbest thing of all, test scores. You can't measure a teacher's success based on a standardized test. You also can't base pay off of a standardized test because as much as some people don't want to admit it every student is not meant for college, and on top of that you can't compare last years third grade class to this years third grade class. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Obama said his administration would "later this year" ensure that schools get the funding they need and that the money is conditioned on results.

 

This is also one of the worst ideas when it comes to education, your school is behind so we will cut your funding more. Yea thats going to help that school get it's performance up, leave it with 20 year old text books missing half the pages.

How about we tie mom and dad's welfare pay to their child's education and test scores?

 

If this happens, I will ask for a transfer out of alternative school with my pay tied to the student's test scores. I will need to worry about providing for my family instead of trying to help these students out and turning their life around. I will not be able to worry about them when I have a family of my own to provide for.

 

I guess we need to tie social workers pay to whether their cases turn their lives around. - It's not a social workers job to turn lives around.

 

I guess we need to tie lawyers pay to whether they get their client off or not. - Private sector should not enter this discussion. If you are talking about public defenders, how can you punish the lawyer if their client is guilty as sin.

 

I guess we need to tie police officers pay to whether the criminal is found guilty or not. It's not the officers job to prove guilt.

 

I guess we need to tie doctor's pay to whether their patient dies or not. I would think you being a religous man wouldn't go here. Some times it is just someones time to go.

 

Those students' classrooms who have supportive home lives that make sure they get their homework done and support education and the teacher actually has little to do with their academic success willl be plumb and competitive jobs. And the kids who do not have that home life will once again get the leftovers instead of them needing the great teachers.

I am not sure what he answer is and not sure if I agree with merit pay. I also see both sides of it as well. That said your examples above are not even in the same ball park as merit pay for teachers.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I know very few teachers in the school district my parents have both taught in for 20+ plus years that don't bust their tails day in and day out over the dumbest thing of all, test scores. You can't measure a teacher's success based on a standardized test. You also can't base pay off of a standardized test because as much as some people don't want to admit it every student is not meant for college, and on top of that you can't compare last years third grade class to this years third grade class. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

What is the answer? Teachers like to bring up private sector pay rates when talking about their "low" pay. But in the private sector you are paid based on performance. I get a base salary and then a big part of my pay is based on incentives. The better I do the more I make. A tenured teacher can show up every day and collect a check. Where is the motivation to improve?

What is the answer? Teachers like to bring up private sector pay rates when talking about their "low" pay. But in the private sector you are paid based on performance. I get a base salary and then a big part of my pay is based on incentives. The better I do the more I make. A tenured teacher can show up every day and collect a check. Where is the motivation to improve?

 

I'm not claiming I have the answers,and I can't speak for all teachers. But, I know that my parents put the same effort in teaching now as when I was a child and their test scored on a yearly basis don't always improve, so should they take a pay check because this years kids aren't as smart as last years? Also consider this, there is already a mass shortage of teachers in kentucky and nationally, what will happen if this is the law. You will see even less people become teachers.

I'm not claiming I have the answers,and I can't speak for all teachers. But, I know that my parents put the same effort in teaching now as when I was a child and their test scored on a yearly basis don't always improve, so should they take a pay check because this years kids aren't as smart as last years? Also consider this, there is already a mass shortage of teachers in kentucky and nationally, what will happen if this is the law. You will see even less people become teachers.

 

 

I disagree. People who teach already know they could make more money doing something else. Teaching for those I know is a calling, not just a job.

I am a teacher and understand what the private sector is saying about wanting results. We all want results for our children that is not the problem. The problem is how do we obtain results and what should those results should be.

 

Is threating teacher pay going to get the desired results of whatever the results are?

 

Or is the problem of getting results rest at home with the parents...

 

Or is the problem of getting results with the child...

 

Is the problem the way school systems spend money (i.e. sports programs)

 

Just some things to consider

 

If it was just the teacher I would say yes cut the pay but there are way to many factors other than the teacher to consider...

 

Please remember that

It would be perfectly acceptable if you measure the student's achievement against himself or herself.

 

Where was the student academically and socially when they entered the building, where were they when they left? Did they make adequate progress during that time.

 

Do base it against the norm is not fair. As in another thread, treating everything the same is equal, but not always just.

I see both sides of the merit pay issue. I do support the elimination of tenure at all levels of government, including teacher tenure. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other job that has tenure.

 

Agree with this!!!! If you don't have to work to keep "earning" your job it brings complacency!

 

What is the answer? Teachers like to bring up private sector pay rates when talking about their "low" pay. But in the private sector you are paid based on performance. I get a base salary and then a big part of my pay is based on incentives. The better I do the more I make. A tenured teacher can show up every day and collect a check. Where is the motivation to improve?

 

Only if the administrator is not doing their job.

 

Tenured teachers can be fired. Administration shows they are a bad teacher, they can be fired.

 

What is wrong with that.?

I am a teacher and understand what the private sector is saying about wanting results. We all want results for our children that is not the problem. The problem is how do we obtain results and what should those results should be.

 

Is threating teacher pay going to get the desired results of whatever the results are?

 

Or is the problem of getting results rest at home with the parents...

 

Or is the problem of getting results with the child...

 

Is the problem the way school systems spend money (i.e. sports programs)

 

Just some things to consider

 

If it was just the teacher I would say yes cut the pay but there are way to many factors other than the teacher to consider...

 

Please remember that

 

Excellent post. As any good scientist knows, you cannot come to valid conclusions about an experiment if you have multiple variables.

 

As a teacher, I hold MYSELF to high standards and expectations. I don't mind anyone critiquing my performance. Tie my pay into my work, not the outcome of all of my students. I have some that will become doctors and engineers (and scored distinguished on the CATS science test, 30+ on the ACT in science), but I also have those that slept through yesterday's ACT and some that couldn't care less about the CATS test. Which students should I get my pay based on?

If teacher’s pay is determined by test scores then so should the student’s parents pay since they play a huge roll in how that student performs.

 

There is a problem with our public school system, but quality teachers are only one factor in the entire scope of the issue. The government seems quick to blame the teachers because they are the easiest target.