Sounds like what my parents told me. My wife and I told our kids the same thing when they were growing up.

 

Agree. :thumb:

Let's just say there is equal opportunities for all to improve there life situations. My problem is with those who say they have no chance and don't even try. But I agree with most of your statement too. But there is absolutely such a thing as opportunities to improve, especially for our children. Responsibility should fall on the parents, 1st and foremost. Root cause maybe ?

 

 

I agree with all you state. But, the topic of the thread was Equality of Opportunity.

 

How many times have you read in this forum alone, that there's no excuse if a person isn't rich....we all have "equal opportunity". The point that I'm trying to make is that there are many opportunities for each individual. But that doesn't mean there are EQUAL opportunities among ALL individuals. I don't deny there are opportunities. What I object to is making a blanket statement.

 

I agree that parents, and society as a whole, bear the responsibility of teaching our kids how to recognize and sieze opportunities. They also have the responsibility to teach kids that success is personal. I can't be measured in dollars and cents, but in satisfication and pride.

 

There's a measure of success to be had for everyone. What one defines for oneself as success likely won't be the same as the next person defines for him/herself. There are no equal successes either.

 

In a nutshell, equality, as defined does not exist, because humanity is not equal for more reasons than I have space to list here.

I agree with all you state. But, the topic of the thread was Equality of Opportunity.

 

How many times have you read in this forum alone, that there's no excuse if a person isn't rich....we all have "equal opportunity". The point that I'm trying to make is that there are many opportunities for each individual. But that doesn't mean there are EQUAL opportunities among ALL individuals. I don't deny there are opportunities. What I object to is making a blanket statement.

 

I agree that parents, and society as a whole, bear the responsibility of teaching our kids how to recognize and sieze opportunities. They also have the responsibility to teach kids that success is personal. I can't be measured in dollars and cents, but in satisfication and pride.

 

There's a measure of success to be had for everyone. What one defines for oneself as success likely won't be the same as the next person defines for him/herself. There are no equal successes either.

 

In a nutshell, equality, as defined does not exist, because humanity is not equal for more reasons than I have space to list here.

 

:thumb:Great post, but please tell me you too, are upset with those that use the crutch of, I have no chance. So, they just accept it and really don't try. I agree on all of your thoughts on this last post.

:thumb:Great post, but please tell me you too, are upset with those that use the crutch of, I have no chance. So, they just accept it and really don't try. I agree on all of your thoughts on this last post.

 

 

Absolutely it upsets me! It makes me really angry, in fact. I also have a problem with people who squander opportunities. But probably the most frustrating thing to me, are people who's lives take unexpected turns, and they simply dwell on what could have been, instead of building a new dream.

Absolutely it upsets me! It makes me really angry, in fact. I also have a problem with people who squander opportunities. But probably the most frustrating thing to me, are people who's lives take unexpected turns, and they simply dwell on what could have been, instead of building a new dream.

 

:thumb: With you on this one RM.

It seems to me that those who say there is no equal opportunity are actually wanting equal outcome. Of corse not eveyone is going to be rich or a champion swimmer. But those who compete help to make the best to use their full talents and have allowed athletes to be better or businesses to provide better services and depending on the situation, lower prices.

The equal opportunity philosophy does not mean everyone will be rich. They will be able to provide all the basics for theirselves and their families. They most likely will be able to provide some additional material items. They may not have a Mercedes, but a nice new car. They may not be able to take a vacation to the South of France, but instead go to the beaches in Florida or go skiing in Lake Tahoe.

The complaints on this thread seem to be, in actuality, poor attitudes, as demostrated by several teachers of what was told to them by their students.

It seems to me that those who say there is no equal opportunity are actually wanting equal outcome. Of corse not eveyone is going to be rich or a champion swimmer. But those who compete help to make the best to use their full talents and have allowed athletes to be better or businesses to provide better services and depending on the situation, lower prices.

The equal opportunity philosophy does not mean everyone will be rich. They will be able to provide all the basics for theirselves and their families. They most likely will be able to provide some additional material items. They may not have a Mercedes, but a nice new car. They may not be able to take a vacation to the South of France, but instead go to the beaches in Florida or go skiing in Lake Tahoe.

The complaints on this thread seem to be, in actuality, poor attitudes, as demostrated by several teachers of what was told to them by their students.

 

I'm not sure if you've read my posts in this thread, but I'm guessing not. I certainly didn't say that I felt there should be equal outcome. I actually said that just as there was no such thing as equal opportunity, there is no such thing as equal success.

I'm not sure if you've read my posts in this thread, but I'm guessing not. I certainly didn't say that I felt there should be equal outcome. I actually said that just as there was no such thing as equal opportunity, there is no such thing as equal success.

 

You mentioned Phelps as if we all should be a championship swimmer or if we are not then there is no equal opportunity, as if everyone has the same abilities.

You mentioned Phelps as if we all should be a championship swimmer or if we are not then there is no equal opportunity, as if everyone has the same abilities.

 

 

As I suspected, you haven't read my posts. I haven't mentioned Phelps.

I'm not sure if you've read my posts in this thread, but I'm guessing not. I certainly didn't say that I felt there should be equal outcome. I actually said that just as there was no such thing as equal opportunity, there is no such thing as equal success.

 

:thumb:

You mentioned Phelps as if we all should be a championship swimmer or if we are not then there is no equal opportunity, as if everyone has the same abilities.

 

RM didn't mention Phelps. I did. I think it would be impossible for us all to have equal opportunities. I believe that we all have the opportunity to be successful, but a different type of success for each person.

RM didn't mention Phelps. I did. I think it would be impossible for us all to have equal opportunities. I believe that we all have the opportunity to be successful, but a different type of success for each person.

 

I knew someone did, I just forgot who. we all have the same opportunity to be a champion swimmer. The best will be the ones to rise to the top. No one has said that you couldn't be a swimmer, the same for any economic activity in this nation. What happens is that the best will show up in the end.

 

So all of us have equal opportunity, skills, knowledge and ability allow people to succeed. Yes some will do better than others and some will fail.

:thumb:

 

I read all the posts. I just believe that from your posts it seems that you want a particular outcome. I guess I'm reading between the lines. Since Bill parsed his words, I tend to look for more than what is said.

I knew someone did, I just forgot who. we all have the same opportunity to be a champion swimmer. The best will be the ones to rise to the top. No one has said that you couldn't be a swimmer, the same for any economic activity in this nation. What happens is that the best will show up in the end.

 

So all of us have equal opportunity, skills, knowledge and ability allow people to succeed. Yes some will do better than others and some will fail.

 

I disagree...perhaps you missed my post earlier, so I will restate it here:

 

How does one become a swimmer of any ability--let alone a champion swimmer--if s/he can't afford access to a pool?

 

Opportunity in this case is clearly not equal, as a person without the financial means to access a swimming pool can never become a swimmer. Can you refute this point?

 

This is, of course, an over simplified scenario that represents countless other situations where, in my opinion, equal opportunities do not exist.

I'm sorry but most of these arguements are lame.

 

This country was not, is currently not, and hopfully never will be based on the socialist philosophy of equality for all in all things.

 

This country is based on endless opportunity, no matter how you slice it. Is it harded for some than others, yes it is?