Equality of opportunity does not exist. It does not exist in the United States. It does not exist in any country. If you want to argue that rigid hierarchies or barriers to class mobility do not exist in the United States, you would be on solid ground. But, to argue that equal opportunity exists is beyond pollyannaish.

 

I though I would make a separate thread for discussion.

I think everyone has the opportunity to be successful in life. The level of success varies of course, but no one IMO is denied the opportunity.

IMO, there is no such thing as equality, period. To think there is is utopian. Does everyone have an opportunity? Most definitely, if one lives in a society of some freedom. The questions though, are whether the opportunities are equal. There are far too many other factors involved to believe in the equality of the opportunities.

OK, say I accept the premise.

 

So what?

OK, say I accept the premise.

 

So what?

 

:thumb:

OK, say I accept the premise.

 

So what?

 

 

Me?

 

If so, nothing I guess. But, don't say everyone has equal opportunities. Say they have opportunities, but the term equal opportunities is idealistic.

OK, fine. Since its unachievably idealistic, don't make laws trying to make everyone equal. Make laws that treat everyone the same. Flat tax, no affirmative action, etc. etc. etc. To do otherwise would be "pollyannaish."

OK, fine. Since its unachievably idealistic, don't make laws trying to make everyone equal. Make laws that treat everyone the same. Flat tax, no affirmative action, etc. etc. etc. To do otherwise would be "pollyannaish."

 

 

I'm actually fine with that.

I'm actually fine with that.

 

And we (I use that term in the collective, universal sense) need to stop whining about it, too. Too often we define our lives over material or social or political achievement, or influence, power, or control, instead of measuring our lives by the impact we have on those around us. If we have no power or influence or money, we wail at the moon at those who do, and accuse them of graft, corruption, high birth, luck, or whatever makes us feel better about our own lot in life.

 

Wake up, look around you. If you bag groceries, be the bagger that is known for always being on time and smiling through all customer obscenities, until you are the bagger that everyone gets in line for. DON'T EXPECT MORE PAY BECAUSE YOU DO IT. DON'T SPEND ALL YOUR TIME BITTER BECAUSE OF SOME PERCEIVED MATERIAL SLIGHT OR PREJUDICE. Do it because its the one area of your life you may have control over.

 

And may the Force be with you.

And we (I use that term in the collective, universal sense) need to stop whining about it, too. Too often we define our lives over material or social or political achievement, or influence, power, or control, instead of measuring our lives by the impact we have on those around us. If we have no power or influence or money, we wail at the moon at those who do, and accuse them of graft, corruption, high birth, luck, or whatever makes us feel better about our own lot in life.

 

Wake up, look around you. If you bag groceries, be the bagger that is known for always being on time and smiling through all customer obscenities, until you are the bagger that everyone gets in line for. DON'T EXPECT MORE PAY BECAUSE YOU DO IT. DON'T SPEND ALL YOUR TIME BITTER BECAUSE OF SOME PERCEIVED MATERIAL SLIGHT OR PREJUDICE. Do it because its the one area of your life you may have control over.

 

And may the Force be with you.

 

 

I agree with you.

 

On the flip side, some of those who have it "all" need to look around as well. Wake up and realize that what you have is a grace. Wake up and realize that because someone doesn't have what you have, it doesn't mean they aren't educated, have no drive, or are beneath you.

 

FT, we may agree, but don't paint the well-to-do as victims of envy or bitterness. There are plenty of examples of greed, and mistreatment of their fellow man to bring up if we want to.

 

No one is a victim if they're happy with their lives, realize the value of more than money and material "things", and are good to their fellow man.

I agree with you.

 

On the flip side, some of those who have it "all" need to look around as well. Wake up and realize that what you have is a grace. Wake up and realize that because someone doesn't have what you have, it doesn't mean they aren't educated, have no drive, or are beneath you.

 

FT, we may agree, but don't paint the well-to-do as victims of envy or bitterness. There are plenty of examples of greed, and mistreatment of their fellow man to bring up if we want to.

 

No one is a victim if they're happy with their lives, realize the value of more than money and material "things", and are good to their fellow man.

 

You are absolutely right, but people need to do these things and not governments.

You are absolutely right, but people need to do these things and not governments.

 

 

Agree. But, unchecked, the greed on one side, and animosity on the other grow uncotrollable. Case in point, the collapse of the financial industry.

And we (I use that term in the collective, universal sense) need to stop whining about it, too. Too often we define our lives over material or social or political achievement, or influence, power, or control, instead of measuring our lives by the impact we have on those around us. If we have no power or influence or money, we wail at the moon at those who do, and accuse them of graft, corruption, high birth, luck, or whatever makes us feel better about our own lot in life.

 

Wake up, look around you. If you bag groceries, be the bagger that is known for always being on time and smiling through all customer obscenities, until you are the bagger that everyone gets in line for. DON'T EXPECT MORE PAY BECAUSE YOU DO IT. DON'T SPEND ALL YOUR TIME BITTER BECAUSE OF SOME PERCEIVED MATERIAL SLIGHT OR PREJUDICE. Do it because its the one area of your life you may have control over.

 

And may the Force be with you.

 

:thumb:

OK, fine. Since its unachievably idealistic, don't make laws trying to make everyone equal. Make laws that treat everyone the same. Flat tax, no affirmative action, etc. etc. etc. To do otherwise would be "pollyannaish."

 

Treating everyone equally is treating every one the same that is what equality means. I prefer we treat everyone fairly which would mean a more progressive tax.

Edited March 10, 200917 yr by bugatti

Treating everyone equally is treating every one the same that is what equality means. I prefer we treat everyone fairly which would mean a more progressive tax.

 

So . . . you do not believe in treating everyone equally?

Edited March 10, 200917 yr by bugatti