First "They" disallowed inter-school competition in June, effectively eliminating 7 on 7 competitions, and limiting competition.

 

Now, with the practice schedule, that virtually not other sport has, some schools are going to be at a further disadvantage. Here are some quotes from the Coaches List Server. I don't think to many are happy about this new move, and they definitely were not happy about the whole "No football in June" thing.

All this rule and start date does is put a school system that starts school Aug. 13 or later at a disavantage. If a School starts school July 30th they get 10 more days in pads than a school that starts Aug. 13 or later. How is this on leval playing feild??

Can someone from the KHSAA please explain to me and the other coaches how this is fair to schools who start later, what is the philosophy behind this rule, and how the KHSAA came to determine the dates for full gear practice to start.

If this is bad for anyone, we should not be making a change. We made a change in the June/July issue and many are upset over it now and trying to change it back. Sometimes we need to just leave things alone. I could mention some other things that should have been left alone.

Don’t limit anything!!! We were working toward changing this state from a basketball state to a football state and we started limiting things

We're sure not goning to do that by letting some people start 10 days early or others have 20 2 a day practices.

No but you get 10 extra practice days over the ones who start Aug. 13 or later.

As it stands now the schools that start after the 13^th doesn’t get the practice opportunities as those who start early and those schools that start early get up to a 10 day jump on those who start late. So I can see where those who start early likes the current system and those who start late do not because everyone wants what is best for their own program and there is nothing wrong with that. There has to be someway to find some common ground that would be at the very least acceptable to everyone. Again not necessarily a perfect solution for everyone but at least a solution that everyone can accept! The way it is now and maybe even the current proposal may does not fulfill everyone’s needs and wants but there has to be an acceptable solution we just need to find it!

 

More information:

 

Coaches,

After studying this rule change here is how I understand it. Here are the additions to the rule. I also attached the bylaw change once posted by Coach Harp. Coach Harp, correct me if I am wrong with this interpretation.

Key part to the Rule change

No school may conduct more than thirty practices of which only twenty-five are to be contact practice (practice in pads) including scrimmages with other schools before the first regular season game.

According to the above change, school start date means nothing other than having 2aday or 3aday practices. The magic numbers are 25 contact practices and 30 total practices.

In 2009 for every school, according to a Note at the bottom of the full pad comparison attached. The schedule could look like this:

Wednesday, July 15^th - Helmets

Thursday, July 16^th – Helmets

Friday, July 17^th – Helmets

***Rule states not counting weekends***

Monday, July 20^th – Shoulder Pads and Helmets

Tuesday, July 21^st – Shoulder Pads and Helmets

Wednesday, July 22^nd – First day of full pads for all schools ***Starts 25 Contact Practices***

· From this date until your first regular season game every school gets a TOTAL of 25 full contact practices and no more.

I believe this is the equity portion of the proposal. If you choose to have 2aday practice for 5 days, you have practiced 10 times. You have 15 practices left before the 1^st game.

Please understand that this is only my interpretation of the rule change. Also, please let me know if I have read this and interpreted the proposal wrong. I think it is beneficial to all coaches to understand the rule completely before the vote takes place.

Case BL-25-16- When does contact football practice begin?

The first date of contact practice is based on the first full day of classes for the student body in each school. Contact practice begins

seven days prior to the first official day (which is the first day prior to students). The following is the calendar for the next several

years.

2008

First day of School for the

student body

First contact

practice

July 31, 2008 July 22, 2008

August 1, 2008 July 23, 2008

August 4, 2008 July 24, 2008

August 5, 2008 July 25, 2008

August 6, 2008 July 28, 2008

August 7, 2008 July 29, 2008

August 8, 2008 July 30, 2008

August 11, 2008 July 31, 2008

August 12, 2008 or later August 1, 2008

2009

First day of School for the

student body

First contact

practice

July 30, 2009 July 20, 2009

July 31, 2009 July 21, 2009

August 3, 2009 July 22, 2009

August 4, 2009 July 23, 2009

August 5, 2009 July 24, 2009

August 6, 2009 July 27, 2009

August 7, 2009 July 28, 2009

August 10, 2009 July 29, 2009

August 11, 2009 July 30, 2009

August 12, 2009 July 31, 2009

August 13, 2009 or later August 1, 2009

2010

First day of School for the

student body

First contact

practice

July 30, 2010 July 20, 2010

August 2, 2010 July 21, 2010

August 3, 2010 July 22, 2010

August 4, 2010 July 23, 2010

August 5, 2010 July 26, 2010

August 6, 2010 July 27, 2010

August 9, 2010 July 28, 2010

August 10, 2010 July 29, 2010

August 11, 2010 July 30, 2010

August 12, 2010 or later August 1, 2010

This was backed by the football and basketball coaches

As for the elimination of June 7/7s, the "they"s you refer to are primarily the football and basketball coaches. I believe it was the coaches advisory committees of those two sports that got together and agreed to the changes. Obviously not all the football coaches agreed with the change and you are reading some of it on the listserv.

 

The other change being proposed is being initiated by Sam Harp. Sam feels that the schools that start school earlier than other schools are at a disadvantage. The logic being that once school starts you can no longer have more then one practice a day. So if your school starts school on say August 3rd and your first game opponent doesn't start school until the end of August, during the month of August you are getting only one practice per day in preparation for the first game, while your opponent is free to get two or even three practices a day (note: there is a limit on the number of contact practices per day, but not a limit on total practices prior to school starting). I believe Sam's proposal will limit the number of total practices any team can have before the first game. Sam's proposal is just that as of now. I believe it is being sent out for a referendum vote to the schools. If 2/3s approve, it then will work it's way through the regulatory approval process. If it doesn't get the number of referendum vote, then it will probably be on the annual Delegate meeting agenda.

 

Personally I don't like the proposal because I don't like the effect it has on programs that have coaches and kids willing to put in more time than others. I know that wasn't Sam's motivation, but it would be an adverse unintended consequence of his proposal. If you limit the total number of practices a program can have, it dumbs down the programs willing to do more than others. I'm afraid it's one more step in the Don Quixote quest of the Level Playing Field. Once this passes (if Sam's proposal passes), what's next? All teams must possess the same number of asst coaches? There's a limit on the amount of money a school's booster program can raise? There's a limit on the quality of weight room a school can have? If you think I'm overreacting, I can see a compelling argument being raised to do those things using Sam's proposal as support. The oft stated concerns about slippery slopes is oft stated for a good reason. And with Sam's reputation being as great as it is, the fact that he supported this proposal to eliminate an unfair advantage, buttresses future efforts to eliminate other "unfair" advantages.

 

I'm genuinely worried about Sam's proposal. He's a fine, make that great, coach, but I'm afraid this is another step in the wrong direction caused by coaches and people worried about the unfair advantages that other programs have. I agree with Sam that there is, without a doubt, an advantage for the programs that start late. I don't agree with Sam that we need to pass rules to address the advantage. The KHSAA doesn't determine when schools start class so the KHSAA should not be asked to address any advantages and dis-advantages created by a school's start date. Sorry Sam, you are a great coach and a great man, but I think you're wrong on this one.

Edited March 9, 200917 yr by leatherneck

Leatherneck, I honestly was thinking of your reply when I posted this information. I pretty much knew that we would see this in a similar way.

 

The limitation of June for football teams was done by coaches, a small number of coaches, who I think thought they were helping the kids by letting them have more time for both basketball and football. But, like I said before, I think the basketball coaches were talking out of both sides of their mouths because, they knew that their players would still be playing basketball in July with their traveling teams. The majority of the football coaches are/were not happy about this move, and I don't blame them. Some coaches may not care to much about 7 on 7 competitions, but it is just another tool that coaches can use to make their teams better, and it has now been restricted.

 

Like you, I agree, when are "they" (some of the football coaches) going to stop placing restrictions on football. Basketball teams have open gyms all summer long, do you hear some coaches saying "that is unfair because I don't want to have as many open gyms as some of the other schools", I would hope not. And, as for more practices for some schools, I don't think many coaches are going to have four weeks of 2 a days, they will have as many weeks as one a days as possible, and who could blame them for that. The coaches should want to make football in the state, and at their school as good as possible, but they can't do that if they keep restricting football activities.

 

I hope some coaches wake up and see the error of their ways.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." I know most were looking out for the kids but anytime you start changing things, you usually mess up. I don't think football should be punished like they are currently. If these mandates remain in place, I would suggest similar rules be placed on other sports and find a way to regulate AAU more stringent, if this is all about the kids and giving them "rest".

Okay I'm really confused :confused:now.So besides spring practice when will say Greenup be able to start practices?

Okay I'm really confused :confused:now.So besides spring practice when will say Greenup be able to start practices?

 

Find out when school starts and plug it into the equation.

Leatherneck, I honestly was thinking of your reply when I posted this information. I pretty much knew that we would see this in a similar way.

 

The limitation of June for football teams was done by coaches, a small number of coaches, who I think thought they were helping the kids by letting them have more time for both basketball and football. But, like I said before, I think the basketball coaches were talking out of both sides of their mouths because, they knew that their players would still be playing basketball in July with their traveling teams. The majority of the football coaches are/were not happy about this move, and I don't blame them. Some coaches may not care to much about 7 on 7 competitions, but it is just another tool that coaches can use to make their teams better, and it has now been restricted.

 

Like you, I agree, when are "they" (some of the football coaches) going to stop placing restrictions on football. Basketball teams have open gyms all summer long, do you hear some coaches saying "that is unfair because I don't want to have as many open gyms as some of the other schools", I would hope not. And, as for more practices for some schools, I don't think many coaches are going to have four weeks of 2 a days, they will have as many weeks as one a days as possible, and who could blame them for that. The coaches should want to make football in the state, and at their school as good as possible, but they can't do that if they keep restricting football activities.

 

I hope some coaches wake up and see the error of their ways.

 

I saw another e mail on the listserv advocating support for Sam's proposal, stating it will make things "equal" for all football programs. There's that agenda again to level the playing field and make things "equal". I seriously wish people would realize that, try as they might, things will never be "equal" in sports or in life. And I worry about the extremes that some people might advocate in their quest for all programs being "equal".

 

I can accept having a dead period to allow the kids some summer and time away from high school sports; I can accept not permitting two a days back to back to protect the kids health; I can even understand (although not necessarily agreeing with) the rule banning 7 on 7s during June to allow kids also playing basketball to participate in open gym bball practices. But Sam's proposal is motivated solely on trying to make things "equal", which I do not support because I find the concept as socialistic. I don't think it will be long before some coaches who are supporting Sam's proposal to make teams equal will be pressuring the KHSAA to limit the number of kids permitted to be on a roster. Preposterous, some claim? Mark my words, if you can limit the number of practices a team can have before the first game, then you can limit the number of kids on a team's roster.

 

If you share my concerns, you better be contacting your team's AD and principal asap.

I think it is a shame that they done away with the 7on7 in June. That is where alot of teams that throw the ball get their timing done for the season. It was also fun to watch for use fans who have to wait through Basketball season then now until august before we get to see some teams compete.

I think it is a shame that they done away with the 7on7 in June. That is where alot of teams that throw the ball get their timing done for the season. It was also fun to watch for use fans who have to wait through Basketball season then now until august before we get to see some teams compete.

 

Absolutely! Again, as I have said in other threads about two or more sports kids. I do not think you should change schedules, rules, etc. to benefit a minority of the players.

 

I loved going to the 7 on 7's in June. Now I am not sure how I will last until August!!!

Edited March 9, 200917 yr by rockmom

I think it is a shame that they done away with the 7on7 in June. That is where alot of teams that throw the ball get their timing done for the season. It was also fun to watch for use fans who have to wait through Basketball season then now until august before we get to see some teams compete.

 

Absolutely! Again, as I have said in other threads about two or more sports kids. I do not think you should change schedules, rules, etc. to benefit a minority of the players.

 

I loved going to the 7 on 7's in June. Now I am not sure how I will last until August!!!

 

I agree with you and Leo.

Edited March 9, 200917 yr by rockmom

I think it is a shame that they done away with the 7on7 in June. That is where alot of teams that throw the ball get their timing done for the season. It was also fun to watch for use fans who have to wait through Basketball season then now until august before we get to see some teams compete.

 

They have not "eliminated" 7on7 in June, just 7on7 against outside competition. Teams can still get as many reps as they want.

But, like I said before, I think the basketball coaches were talking out of both sides of their mouths because, they knew that their players would still be playing basketball in July with their traveling teams.

Some of those kids are playing basketball, but not with their high school teams ... and frankly, most basketball coaches I know aren't all that thrilled with their kids being so involved in AAU programs. These days, they're basically a necessary evil.