1) A radio call takes 10 seconds.

 

2) Police procedure is to pull your weapon and tell the driver to remain in the vehicle.

 

3) The bullet passed through the window. By examining the glass you can tell from which direction the bullet came from and the angle.

 

4) Most vehicle crime scenes do not get processed in a day. The investigative markings were still in the car...

 

And no I don't watch conspiracy theory movies. I just happen to be a Criminal Justice major who has learned about how to process a crime scene. Also I've been on ride alongs with Cincinnati Police where a radio call had to be placed and it was done so within seconds.

 

Bad police work as far as the truck doesn't have to mean foul play. Means bad police work.:ohbrother:

Guru - here's a couple of questions that come to my simple mind:

 

1. How long is the barrel of a shotgun and how hard would it be to reach the trigger with the barrel in one's mouth?

 

2. How long would it take the kid to reach in the back and get the gun off the floor, get out of the car, extend the gun, put it in his mouth, and pull the trigger?

 

3. Should we expect to have teeth broken as a result?

 

4. How likely is the gun to fall directly on top of the body in this type of suicide?

The aspect that I see missing in these responses, is that the policeman very well may have known who he was chasing. From the story it seems that this was a somewhat frequent event, and maybe he did not want to make a big deal of this star runner running a redlight.

 

This being said, the story still needs some explanations, I for one will wait until I hear them before making conclusions.

 

This story is extremely sad, however the outcome, but lets try to wait for one to place any blame.

Guru - here's a couple of questions that come to my simple mind:

 

1. How long is the barrel of a shotgun and how hard would it be to reach the trigger with the barrel in one's mouth?

 

2. How long would it take the kid to reach in the back and get the gun off the floor, get out of the car, extend the gun, put it in his mouth, and pull the trigger?

 

3. Should we expect to have teeth broken as a result?

 

4. How likely is the gun to fall directly on top of the body in this type of suicide?

Yes, you could easily reach the trigger of a shotgun with the barrel in your mouth. I wondered the same thing about your second question but what's to say the gun was under the back seat. What's to say it wasn't in the front seat. That sure would explain why he jumped out when was pulled over. I would guess if you had the gun butt on the ground when you pulled the trigger I don't think it would necessarily break any teeth.

Guru - here's a couple of questions that come to my simple mind:

 

1. How long is the barrel of a shotgun and how hard would it be to reach the trigger with the barrel in one's mouth?

 

2. How long would it take the kid to reach in the back and get the gun off the floor, get out of the car, extend the gun, put it in his mouth, and pull the trigger?

 

3. Should we expect to have teeth broken as a result?

 

4. How likely is the gun to fall directly on top of the body in this type of suicide?

 

If he put a shot gun to his mouth and pulled the trigger, I'd say you'd have more than broken teeth. But I'm just guessing...

Bad police work as far as the truck doesn't have to mean foul play. Means bad police work.:ohbrother:

 

I never said that there was foul play. I merely questioned a few of the policing decisions involved with the case.

 

1. I agree it was a bad error in judgment not to call he was in pursuit. However, we don't know how well officers in this town are trained.

 

2. I disagree. It is a fluid situation. Trust me, there is no one way to handle situations when a perp exits a vehicle after a pursuit. I have been in several pursuits and I don't know that any two have ever ended with the same perp actions.

 

3. Maybe. You also have to consider the possible close proximity to the glass.

 

4. I agree it normally takes longer to process a scene. Giving the car back makes no sense and certainly isn't something you would do if there was some type of foul play because it could be incriminating. This fact tells me they probably don't know what they are doing and were too stupid to ask for help.

 

The author of the article did an excellent job pointing out what I believe explains a lot of the abnormalities and that is the officer probably knew the deceased (and his vehicle) on sight so he abandoned several normal police procedures because he didn't feel threatened.

 

One other thing, they have a retired Chief (and now an expert consultant) telling you what should have been done. I am sure the Chief knows his stuff inside and out and is going to have the correct answer for everything. However, comparing his knowledge of police procedure to many small town coppers could be like some NFL coordinators telling a youth football coach what he is doing wrong. The only point I am trying to get across is that many small town law enforcement agencies leave a lot to be desired. It doesn't however mean they are out committing criminal acts.

 

1. Not wanting to get into an argument here because you are right that it is not known how well the officers are trained but do you not think it would be common practice for ANY officer to call for back up in a situation like this? I think if you took a poll of normal civilians and asked them to put themselves in the officer's shoes they would call for back up.

 

2. I will take your word for it as you have been there and done that. Just seems odd that an officer would allow a suspect to approach them after a high speed chase.

 

3. I'm going to preface this one with I may be wrong but I was taught that as long as the glass stays intact you can tell by the fissures left which direction and angle the bullet was traveling. Am I wrong here? If so how? (I am trying to use this as an educational experience as I plan on being a police officer when I turn 21.)

The aspect that I see missing in these responses, is that the policeman very well may have known who he was chasing. From the story it seems that this was a somewhat frequent event, and maybe he did not want to make a big deal of this star runner running a redlight.

 

I covered that in my last response.

nku19,

 

1 and 2 are easily explained if the officer knew the deceased and recognized his car. From reading the article, knowing this guy had a zillion minor run ins with the law and he had a vanity plate of some type and he is a D1 star RB I would feel certain the officer knew who he had which explains not following what most would consider normal procedures.

 

On 3 I am by no means an expert. The point I am making is how close was the blast to the window and could there have been some other type of collateral damage from the blast because of the close proximity. And if so this may compromise the validity of the evidence and what you are able to determine from said evidence.

Has any more info been released to the public?

nku19,

 

1 and 2 are easily explained if the officer knew the deceased and recognized his car. From reading the article, knowing this guy had a zillion minor run ins with the law and he had a vanity plate of some type and he is a D1 star RB I would feel certain the officer knew who he had which explains not following what most would consider normal procedures.

 

On 3 I am by no means an expert. The point I am making is how close was the blast to the window and could there have been some other type of collateral damage from the blast because of the close proximity. And if so this may compromise the validity of the evidence and what you are able to determine from said evidence.

 

Alright thanks for the input Guru. I'm getting ready to go into my Police In America class and was going to bring this topic up in discussion to see what my teacher and others have to say about it.

Was there no video from the cruiser cam?

Was there no video from the cruiser cam?

 

I'm thinking with it being a small town there probably was not.

Has any more info been released to the public?

 

I believe witnesses went before the grand jury today.

Findings will be made public on Thursday.

 

http://www.gulflive.com/news/mississippipress/news.ssf?/base/news/1234350910261350.xml&coll=5

LUCEDALE, Miss. (Map, News) - A star Mississippi high school football player accidentally shot himself with a shotgun after he was pulled over during a traffic stop, a grand jury ruled Thursday.

 

It concluded there was no forensic evidence, including DNA, that indicated the deputy who pulled Johnson over had fired the gun.

 

"The grand jury finds ... that Deputy Joe Sullivan was in his patrol car at the time of Billey Joe Johnson Jr.'s death," the ruling said.

 

The ruling said Johnson's hands tested positive for gunpowder residue and there were no other injuries on his body. The grand jury said there were no other people involved in the shooting.

 

LINK