"Sweep the leg".

 

 

Oh yeah, that was a movie. I also cannot imagine that deliberately trying to injure another player is coached.

 

Taking advantage of a player that is hurting? Such as repeatedly driving past someone with a gimpy leg? Sure, but that's totally different.

 

We have a player playing this season with a knee injury (no ACL) & braced. On 3 occasions this season she has had opposing players do something deliberately to that leg...twice they have actually kicked it out from under her & one game she had players that were guarding her that drove their knees into it...a pushing in kind of motion. I don't think those times are coached, I think sometimes players do things like that from frustration. Opposing teams do try to take advantage of her by driving to one side or forcing her to that side, but that isn't anything that she wouldn't do to someone else. She says that's "just ball."

 

I also think that there is a huge difference between being "physical" & "dirty."

By your question, I am guessing you feel that an opposing player was intentionally trying to hurt someone on your team? What would make you think that?

 

Yes, I believe they were. I won't name names and I know of a situation that didn't occur against "our" team (although it happened against us too). A young lady who is recovering from a broken finger allegedly had her fingers grabbed and twisted by an opposing player. The odd thing is; the player who did this is very talented and doesn't have to play like that.

Yep, that is true. The more it is taught and practiced, the better they get at it.

 

I agree and I do think that it is being taught. It has been bad for awhile IMO- not just this year but it does seem that the refs are calling it more often - at least that is what I have seen so far.

 

I think most of this inlcuding the question about the knee- it all due to frustration about not being able to guard the player so they result to these type of tactics. Not sure if it is more player or coach though- toss up!

I think most of this inlcuding the question about the knee- it all due to frustration about not being able to guard the player so they result to these type of tactics. Not sure if it is more player or coach though- toss up!

 

I agree that frustration is what generally makes a player cross the line & do something "dirty." I do feel however that most coaches would not tolerate that kind of play. Dirty play meaning trying to hurt a player to gain an advantage.

 

I do agree, however, that they are taught, for lack of a better word, "tricks" by coaches. Jersey pulling, etc. I think most of "tricks" go mostly unseen by the fans though, especially down in the trenches at the post.

I agree that frustration is what generally makes a player cross the line & do something "dirty." I do feel however that most coaches would not tolerate that kind of play. Dirty play meaning trying to hurt a player to gain an advantage.

 

I do agree, however, that they are taught, for lack of a better word, "tricks" by coaches. Jersey pulling, etc. I think most of "tricks" go mostly unseen by the fans though, especially down in the trenches at the post.[/quote]

 

I think so too, and they're not just confined to pulling jerseys. It's easy for the fan to get caught up watching the ball. But officials shouldn't fall into that trap.

Although this is not a "blatantly dirty" act, the one defensive tactic that is having the single greatest impact on games is use of hands and arms by the defender against the dribbler. Formerly known as a "hand-check," it has now become an NFL-like forearm shiver, and it seems to be almost a fact that referees do not/willnot/cannot effectively call this. To listen to "points of emphasis" at pre-season rules clinics is just wasted time, because once the season rolls around, the same old laxness continues and even gets worse.

 

Just because big-time college or professional coaches have their players do this in attempt to circumvent the rules of the game, doesn't mean that it needs to be tolerated, taught and encouraged by high school coaches. HOWEVER, when your team is victimized by this tolerant mentality, game-after-game, by officials who will not impose the rules as they are written, as a coach who is judged by you won-loss record, you will feel pressure to adapt and do likewise in order to not be placed at a competitive disadvantage.

Edited January 26, 200917 yr by retropop
typos

Although this is not a "blatantly dirty" act, the one defensive tactic that is having the single greatest impact on games is use of hands and arms by the defender against the dribbler. Formerly known as a "hand-check," it has now become an NFL-like forearm shiver, and it seems to be almost a fact that referees do not/willnot/cannot effectively call this. To listen to "points of emphasis" at pre-season rules clinics is just wasted time, because once the season rolls around, the same old laxness continues and even gets worse.

 

 

I've seen the hand check called more this year than any other year. Most coaches are for it until its their guy.

I've seen the hand check called more this year than any other year. Most coaches are for it until its their guy.

 

I saw it called a couple of times in early games when the "point of emphasis" may have been fresh in folks' minds. Haven't seen one called in calendar 2009.

There are plays that are dirty that are taught or learned. It can make for a really physical game. It is a dirty play to have a kid grab jersey or the bottom of shorts is more often what I see. But I've seen kids that "chop" at someone that does that to remove their hands...

Two of trhe dirties of all time -- the Scott Casey rule at HC and the Nose Ball..

 

Scott Casey from the early eighties, had a knack for making opponents eat the pads whenever they shot a layup..

 

The nose ball came into play when college started calling the elbow swinging violation. Many coaches started teaching players not to swing elbows but to use the ball. I guess they think that the "striking" offense is less obvious with the ball.

Maybe it's just me, but I have seen more jersey pulling in just over half a season this year than in the last 2 or 3 years in total.

 

I've seen plenty of that too, plus lots of pushing, as well. :irked:

Hand checking, hard screens, or grabbing a jersey isn't what would consider dirty. To me, dirty play is intentionally trying to really hurt someone. For example, undercutting someone in the air is a dirty play. Stepping on a player that is down is dirty. In my opinion, you rarely see these types of plays in girls basketball.

Although this is not a "blatantly dirty" act, the one defensive tactic that is having the single greatest impact on games is use of hands and arms by the defender against the dribbler. Formerly known as a "hand-check," it has now become an NFL-like forearm shiver, and it seems to be almost a fact that referees do not/willnot/cannot effectively call this. To listen to "points of emphasis" at pre-season rules clinics is just wasted time, because once the season rolls around, the same old laxness continues and even gets worse.

 

Just because big-time college or professional coaches have their players do this in attempt to circumvent the rules of the game, doesn't mean that it needs to be tolerated, taught and encouraged by high school coaches. HOWEVER, when your team is victimized by this tolerant mentality, game-after-game, by officials who will not impose the rules as they are written, as a coach who is judged by you won-loss record, you will feel pressure to adapt and do likewise in order to not be placed at a competitive disadvantage.

 

Certain teams are very effective at using this and I will not name names but they are some of the top teams in the surrounding regions. Lots of hand checking and shoving back not just on the dribbler but on the offensive player working to get open. Physical shoving, forearm in gut the entire time.

I have seen teams where the coach has congratulated a player after a deliberate foul and once I even heard a coach yell to his player on the court to 'hit them harder next time'. It was completely unnecessary and uncalled for. I also think when a player has a dirty foul, called or not, and the coach does not take the player out of say something to them about it, they are condoning this behavior and might as well be teaching them to play dirty.

Pulling jerseys, pushing, or hard play, I think thats coached. But pushing them down when they are already injured..thats their nature..

in my opinion

Edited January 28, 200917 yr by cincy firestorm