Did all these players quit under Biggs (I'm not close enough to the program to know)? If so, I have heard that Biggs does run very tough practices (of course, this is just what I have heard). If these players quit because the practices were too hard then it is not the coach's fault - these players would not be the "winning" players needed for the team to be successful anyway. If they left because of limited playing time then let 'em go. It is in a coach's best interests to play the best players. No coach is going to reduce a players clock if it hurts his chance of winning. The best players play the most, if you want more clock just play harder and earn it - or quit.

 

Bottom line - too many high schoolers are spoiled and expect things they haven't yet earned. I respect coaches who do not cater to them or their parents. I guess I'm just old school

 

To some extent I agree with you but sometimes you can be too hardcore for your own good. I offer you the example of Ron Reed. Brilliant basketball mind but he has a difficult time relating to kids.

 

I'm old school myself but I also understand that good or bad times have changed.

Really? Care to elaborate on Hager's side of the primary issue? Did they and do they dodge RH or not? Or possibly, instead of the "trick" in the tournament scenerio which did happen but possibly may have been a different year, did they lose during that "streak" to RH but afterward declare it a practice game so they wouldn't have to count it? Be honest and forget the spin.

 

Tell me more about how the trick happened. I'm curious

Is the GRC-Ashland game still on? I doubt GRC will want to cancel it.

Hey old shooter, Tell you what I believe are facts. I believe that during the three year span that you mentioned, Hager and Rose Hill played once. It was during the 5th grade year in the first round of the Opt Tourney. This game Hager won. The Rose Hill coach stated that he took the "Hager bullet" in that tourney. That Hager team never played Rose Hill and decided that it was a scrimmage. They won the only meeting between the schools.

Hey old shooter, Tell you what I believe are facts. I believe that during the three year span that you mentioned, Hager and Rose Hill played once. It was during the 5th grade year in the first round of the Opt Tourney. This game Hager won. The Rose Hill coach stated that he took the "Hager bullet" in that tourney. That Hager team never played Rose Hill and decided that it was a scrimmage. They won the only meeting between the schools.

 

IMO this above is the problem with a lot of schools. People at the feeder schools worry to much about winning at the elem. and middle school levels instead of preparing them for high school ball. If you look back at two of the most successful programs in the late 80's and early 90's were Boyd County (boys) West Carter (girls) had people from the HS programs coaching and doing what the high school coaches wanted. And it showed with W's

Just helping os with the facts. The girls coach you mentioned made a statement once that great coaches don't make great teams, great players do. If those teams did it right then why did they change

Because different coaches came in and thought they knew more about coaching than their predecessors did and we see what happen to especially Boyd County.

I think that both the teams you mention were blessed with talented kids whose parents believed in working hard to achieve. It never hurts to have three Gearhart girls, coaches kids both for WC and Boyd and supportive parents.

Thats true but they were made better by having good people developing them. When they got into high school they could work on refining their game instead of having to start from scratch teaching fundamental's.

I agree it starts with quality parents or grandparents teaching the right things.

Hey old shooter, Tell you what I believe are facts. I believe that during the three year span that you mentioned, Hager and Rose Hill played once. It was during the 5th grade year in the first round of the Opt Tourney. This game Hager won. The Rose Hill coach stated that he took the "Hager bullet" in that tourney. That Hager team never played Rose Hill and decided that it was a scrimmage. They won the only meeting between the schools.

 

I talked with the RH coach and you are technically correct. He said it was actually a 4th grade tournament in which he played 3rd graders against your 4th graders. He had no complaint since that is just the way it worked out. I was confusing that period with an earlier period when your boys got "bushwhacked" by being forced to play RH (using a factitious team name, I believe) in a Russell tournament.

 

There has been so much cloak and dagger activity since 2001 that it is difficult to keep the "activities" straight.

 

However, I'll bet we can agree that your official policy is to forbid your elementary teams from playing RH. Surely, you can't deny that?

 

But, this thread deals with Ashland and Boyd County and their perceived loss of stature and not elementary "practices". So, to tie all this together, I'll just say that Ashland needs to take a serious look at its feeder system. You get better by playing the better teams.

The way I read Shutupandplay post it saying that 2 people were the reason that the coaches left. If I took that the wrong way I'm sorry.

 

"maroon", If you read some of my previous posts you'll see where I DON'T think it's just 2 people responsible for Ashlands downslide over the years. And I've also stated that I think Coach Biggs is a good coach. I do believe there are some "constants" that have been hampering the program for MANY years. This has kept them from keeping good coaches like Biggs and letting them coach to their fullest potential. I don't think they have had any coach since 1990 be a negative impact on the program.

 

:D

Breeden left for a coaching job at Morehead. Jeff Hall left for a job with the USBL team in Louisville. Craynor Slone left to be closer to home. If your trying to blame all of this on one or two people your crazy.

 

These jobs may seem appealling but when these coaches left they couldn't wait to get out of town. Two of those coaches I know would have liked to have stayed under different circumstances. Remember The Ashland head coaching job used to be a premier job in the state.

 

:D

Not graduating basketball players would be a problem anywhere. I'm just not ready to say that much of it is Coaches' fault. I'm not even saying that I disagree with a lot of the comments made about how players get better. But it would be hard to hang all the blame for the " sins of the past " on Coach Biggs now wouldn't it? I'd like to give the man a chance and support him especially if in fact he did inherit the shortfalls that have been called out in this thread. I want to see Ashland win every time they go on the court and I'm all for doing the work that's necessary to get back to the point where they are a real threat to anybody they play. All I'm saying is that now that there is some space between where they are and where they want to be there is no short cut back. You take what you have and build the best team you possibly can, no excuses and certainly no moral victories.

Have you always supported Biggs or did this just start this year?:confused:

I think it comes down to your talent. If curiousgeorge and I both have a similar carriage, and speaking from basketball coaching prowess alone, let's say we have very similar, if not the same knowledge on how to drive said carriages, you give me a thoroughbred and give him a mule and I'll look like a star while he doesn't. You give him the Celtics and me the Grizzlies and he's the genius and I'm soon looking for work. It's all about the players.

 

Now that I've spewed that parable, with regards to Ashland and Boyd Co., from watching the middle schools at least down to the 7th grade level and being fairly familiar with the kids in both schools in that grade/age group, I don't think that Ashland is nearly as bare as Boyd. Unless something unforeseen happens to each, I doubt that either will be favorites to win the region in the near future. However, I've also seen virtually every other team in this region in this age group as well,,,,,and this ain't exactly murderers row either.