Boo hoo from the public schools. Let's play 6 classes, allow 0-10 teams make the playoffs, and why not give trophies to everyone that participates. The public schools need to drop the argument, join the real world, and learn that disappointment is part of life. The more you segregate the sports and athletics, the less special championships become for the players.

What is the methodology, goal and desired results of the boycotts?

 

Methodology: Do not play with the private school kids and encourage all

your playground kids to do the same

 

Goal: Make sure that all of your playmates get a trophy at the end

year

 

Desired Result: Hope that the private school kids will get discouraged and

buy their own ball and play on the other side of the

playground

I've noticed that during this "debate" about public versus private no one has mentioned enrollment numbers or boundaries.

 

Private schools have no boundaries from which to draw their enrollment numbers. They are within the guidelines set up for each class for overall enrollment just as the public schools are, but private schools hand-pick their students based on their own criteria and many have enrollments of just one sex. Public schools must take students within their resides area, irregardless of their sex.

 

One 6A public school has an enrollment of total students at 1536 and a male/female ratio of 815 males / 721 females. Can anyone reasonably argue that a 6A public school with 815 males to pull a football team from (who are chosen just based on their address) can compete with a team who is made up of hand-picked students chosen from a number almost double that, without a boundary to restrict their enrollment?

I've noticed that during this "debate" about public versus private no one has mentioned enrollment numbers or boundaries.

 

Private schools have no boundaries from which to draw their enrollment numbers. They are within the guidelines set up for each class for overall enrollment just as the public schools are, but private schools hand-pick their students based on their own criteria and many have enrollments of just one sex. Public schools must take students within their resides area, irregardless of their sex.

 

One 6A public school has an enrollment of total students at 1536 and a male/female ratio of 815 males / 721 females. Can anyone reasonably argue that a 6A public school with 815 males to pull a football team from (who are chosen just based on their address) can compete with a team who is made up of hand-picked students chosen from a number almost double that, without a boundary to restrict their enrollment?

 

This has been argued ad nauseum. There are public schools that have no resides district, among them Male and Manual in Jefferson County. There are also public schools all over the state that accept out of district and even out of state students on a tuition paying basis. The truth be told the criteria to be accepted into either Manual or Male are much more stringent the the criteria to get into either X or Trinity. Are they subject to your rant as well?

 

And since you want to bring up the numbers game yeat again what is your explaination as to why the public school with the largest male enrollment (Dunbar) is arguably the worst 6A public school? And whay did the school with the second largest (Henderson County) not get out of the first round of the playoffs?

 

http://www.bluegrasspreps.com/showthread.php?t=166404

Edited December 15, 200817 yr by All Tell
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This has been argued ad nauseum. There are public schools that have no resides district, among them Male and Manual in Jefferson County. There are also public schools all over the state that accept out of district and even out of state students on a tuition paying basis. The truth be told the criteria to be accepted into either Manual or Male are much more stringent the the criteria to get into either X or Trinity. Are they subject to your rant as well?

 

And since you want to bring up the numbers game yeat again what is your explaination as to why the public school with the largest male enrollment (Dunbar) is arguably the worst 6A public school? And whay did the school with the second largest (Henderson County) not get out of the first round of the playoffs?

 

All Tell - I am disappointed that you saw my post as a rant. I merely stated my opinion and supported it with rational arguments.

 

You are correct, there are public schools which have no resides. These schools, like the private schools, chose their students based on criteria which they determine. In the case of Male and Manual, these two schools recently had their enrollment practices curtailed a bit by the stipulation that the student must have come from a traditional program or be acceptable academically (such as being an advance program student).

 

I believe that my main idea from my previous post was the issue with selection. Public schools in Jefferson County (besides the aforementioned Male and Manual, and of course Central) do not select their students. They pretty much have to work with what they are given. I do not know about the enrollment practices of schools outside of Jefferson County first-hand. What I see is that traditionally schools in the state which are given the opportunity to select their students have fared much better in athletics than those who cannot. My question, which you did not address, was how schools which cannot determine who attends them can be competitive with schools who hand-pick their student athletes? Schools such as Central, which has even less restriction on their enrollment practices than even Male or Manual, can allow any student they want to attend and participate in athletics. This is a prime example of my point. Until recently, Central was like the other public schools in Jefferson County and could only accept those students in its resides. Since this has changed, along with the new classification system for football, Central has had back-to-back state championships. Although Ty is a talented coach, I don’t believe it was just his skill that enabled Central to accomplish this. It had to have something to do with an increased enrollment boundary and the ability to select his athletes from that larger area, coupled with changes to the classification system.

 

There has never been a greater need than there is now for reform in Kentucky high school football. Forget for a second the debate between public and private and focus on the issue of selection. The playing field is very unevenly balanced when teams such as Male, Manual, St. X, Trinity, Holy Cross, DeSales, Butler and yes, even Central (there you go, Ty, you've been mentioned with them!) have the right to select their student athletes. Other schools have been handed the small concession of crossing districts so that they can hang in there longer in the playoffs before having to face one of them. I say "small concession" because it isn't much consolation to have to go up against a hand-picked all-star team. I am not suggesting that we start handing out participation trophies, I am merely stating the fact that we need to reform the way we restrict some, and not all, of the schools. We need to remember that while this is the real world, it also needs to be as fair as we can make it. In the real world, laws in our society do not pertain to only one group of people, so why should our system for determining teams of student athletes only pertain to one group of schools? To say that this is acceptable is to say that an elite group of people don’t have to follow the rules everyone else does.

Some schools CHOOSE to drug test. Should all schools then be required to drug test as a stipulation of playing sports?

 

Every school in the state could CHOOSE to start an open enrollemnt policy rather then a strict closed district policy.

 

The restrictions that you speak of are placed there by the schools themselves (or their local school syatems) and not the state or the KHSAA. It is grossly unfair to expect everyone to follow those self imposed restrictions.

I've noticed that during this "debate" about public versus private no one has mentioned enrollment numbers or boundaries.

 

Private schools have no boundaries from which to draw their enrollment numbers. They are within the guidelines set up for each class for overall enrollment just as the public schools are, but private schools hand-pick their students based on their own criteria and many have enrollments of just one sex. Public schools must take students within their resides area, irregardless of their sex.

 

I would argue that the students have the opportunity to pick the school instead of the other way around.

thsrocks Beechwood and Highlands are independents and FAR from being a private so I honestly don't know what you are thinking.

In an thread in the football forum it was pointed out that FT Campbell High School is a private school in the truest sense of the meaning of the word private ie. not open to the public ( Encarta College Dictionary ) .

In an thread in the football forum it was pointed out that FT Campbell High School is a private school in the truest sense of the meaning of the word private ie. not open to the public ( Encarta College Dictionary ) .

 

And it's not in Kentucky!!!!

thsrocks Beechwood and Highlands are independents and FAR from being a private so I honestly don't know what you are thinking.

 

They can and do manipulate who attends from outside thier "district".

Highlands is number in in CATS testing for one very good reason. Zero poverty. Their enrollment has neither increased or decreased over the past 15 years or so (plus or minus 50)

 

Beechwood listed 65 footballers out of a co-ed enrollment of 316. That's 1 in every three males playing football. That's awesome and also eyebrow raising.

How many current footballers reside outside Beechwood'd district? Same for HHS. It's OK, I'm just pointing out that there is no level playing field among public schools. Every county and evry independent has it's own set of rules about who and who cannot attend their school. So, if the publics can't have a blanket rule, why should the privates be expected to have one?

They can and do manipulate who attends from outside thier "district".

Highlands is number in in CATS testing for one very good reason. Zero poverty. Their enrollment has neither increased or decreased over the past 15 years or so (plus or minus 50)

 

Beechwood listed 65 footballers out of a co-ed enrollment of 316. That's 1 in every three males playing football. That's awesome and also eyebrow raising.

How many current footballers reside outside Beechwood'd district? Same for HHS. It's OK, I'm just pointing out that there is no level playing field among public schools. Every county and evry independent has it's own set of rules about who and who cannot attend their school. So, if the publics can't have a blanket rule, why should the privates be expected to have one?

I'm afraid you don't seem to know very much about Ft. Thomas. We have people here who are not what anyone would consider "middle class." You're only going by our reputation as a "rich" town. Well, that only applies to a percentage of the population. I can sure promise you it doesn't apply to my family, or any of my neighbors. So that has nothing to do with our CATS scores.

 

As for our school population--it has exploded! It got so bad at one point that we had trailers out on the front lawn to accomodate the rapidly increasing overflow. The school buildings have had to be remodeled and an additional building built. So the "stable population" idea is incorrect.

 

Lastly, it's a well-discussed myth that most of our players--and all of the good ones--come from out of the city limits. I'm kind of surprised to hear the myth suggested by a Trinity person.

^ I don't think it's a gripe, BF. It's just that we hear all this talk about booting us out of the KHSAA and decidedly less about giving the boot to independent schools. Now, I'm not as knowledgeable as I should be on the subject, but it seems to me that independent schools have a lot of the same advantages we do that allow them to be successful.

 

Honestly, I couldn't care less where the students come from. If I had my way, a Catholic education at Trinity would be open to anyone who wanted it. But I don't get my way. What needs to be taken from thsrocks' post is that participation number. Every school district in the state needs to look at Highlands and ask "Now how the heck can we get a participation ratio anywhere near that?!" One in every three boys playing is absolutely unbelievable. Every school should aspire to that kind of participation. Except Trinity, of course, because what the heck are we going to do with 350 football players? We'll focus on French Scrabble and the Chess team.

Every school district in the state needs to look at Highlands and ask "Now how the heck can we get a participation ratio anywhere near that?!" One in every three boys playing is absolutely unbelievable.

I "think" he was referring to Beechwood with that number.

^ Whoops. Yeah, I misread that. Still... an incredible number to say the least.