Then what do you do with the literal interpretation of "NO ONE comes to the Father except through/by me"?

 

Does Jesus mean "NO ONE" or not?

 

I am not sure I know what you mean by the bolded.

I am not sure I know what you mean by the bolded.

 

Jesus says NO ONE comes to the father except by me.

 

Now you have equivacated (sp) and said that is not true. Those who have not had the opportunity to reject him you say can go to heaven. If you take Jesus' words honestly, He says NO ONE - he does not equivocate (sp). NO ONE - that would mean those living in some part of the world somewhere who have never heard the word could not possible go to heaven.

 

which is it?

There are many paths to find Jesus, but only one path to find Salvation.

 

Christians= followers of Christ. The word is found in Acts 11:26 and refers to what the disciples were called by the early Church. Not sure if believers of Jesus called themselves this or by their ememies as a term of approach.

 

Acts 26:28 The king Agrippa asks Paul..."are you trying to make me a Christian?"

 

1st Peter 4:16 "However if you suffer as a Christian".

 

Glad this came up I never realized the word was really only used 3 times and was never used in the Gospels. Believers was used....in fact word believe is in John 99 times.

 

Someone made a great point about where God knows our true heart and he didn't create man to burn him. Its when you sin and don't ask for forgiveness and reject the teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

 

Thanks, AL. Good info. However, I think it supports the contention that what you and I might use as a definition of a "Christian" is not necessarily corroborated in the Bible, correct? If its only used 3 times then I'd challenge Newman to tell me what definition he is using when he says that "by definition" Obama is not a Christian.

Jesus says NO ONE comes to the father except by me.

 

Now you have equivacated (sp) and said that is not true. Those who have not had the opportunity to reject him you say can go to heaven. If you take Jesus' words honestly, He says NO ONE - he does not equivocate (sp). NO ONE - that would mean those living in some part of the world somewhere who have never heard the word could not possible go to heaven.

 

which is it?

 

Where did I say that was not true? I indicated a Scripture that gave a way for those who have not heard about Christ to get in Heaven.

 

But I neither wrote the Bible nor Romans, so it would NOT be what LBBC said.

 

Not sure what equivocate means.

Where did I say that was not true? I indicated a Scripture that gave a way for those who have not heard about Christ to get in Heaven.

But I neither wrote the Bible nor Romans, so it would NOT be what LBBC said.

 

Not sure what equivocate means.

 

But Jesus says "NO ONE goes except by me". So that would mean the scripture you gave cannot be true because Jesus said "NO ONE goes". Jesus does not say "NO ONE . . . except those who have never heard of me . . ." He says "NO ONE"

Thanks, AL. Good info. However, I think it supports the contention that what you and I might use as a definition of a "Christian" is not necessarily corroborated in the Bible, correct? If its only used 3 times then I'd challenge Newman to tell me what definition he is using when he says that "by definition" Obama is not a Christian.

 

Where did everyone go that was saying Obama didn't meet the Bible's definition of a "Christian?"

Without starting another debate on the definition of "christian" I will add that Obama does not appear to be a born again christian. When I hear the word christian, and when I refer to myself as a christian, I mean "a born again christian." This would mean washed in the blood of my savior Jesus Christ. If christian means something else to you then go with it.

Without starting another debate on the definition of "christian" I will add that Obama does not appear to be a born again christian. When I hear the word christian, and when I refer to myself as a christian, I mean "a born again christian." This would mean washed in the blood of my savior Jesus Christ. If christian means something else to you then go with it.

 

I think you raise a good issue for discussion.

 

Most evangelical circles believe in a "conversion" experience (born again) that makes one a Christian. They mostly believe in "regenerative baptism" which takes place "after" conversion.

 

Historically, most evangelical circles decry Christianity that does not include a personal conversion experience.

 

Non-Evangelical circles usually practice a form of baptism in infancy or childhood that brings one into the church (Christendom) and follows that with an instruction (catechism, confirmation, etc.) whose intent is to lead to discipleship.

 

So by Mr. Wong's definition, some are Christian who've had one experience and others are not because they haven't. (This isn't a slam on Wong I'm trying to define the points of the discussion)

 

So when one speaks of Christian, there are differing mindsets and have been for centuries. :thumb:

The only important definition of Christian is studying what Jesus asks for your name to be written in the book of the Lamb and a member of His church.

 

What the different denominations say is irrelevant and unimportant.

The only important definition of Christian is studying what Jesus asks for your name to be written in the book of the Lamb and a member of His church.

 

What the different denominations say is irrelevant and unimportant.

 

Spoken by a true evangelical. Why is it irrelevant what the 1700 year old Church has to say?

 

If this is true, it is irrelevant which books are in the Bible since the Church had a great deal to say about which ones it included.

 

They have read the same words and have come to a different conclusion than you - what does this say? I also believe that the Catholic Church is the largest Christian denomination in the world. Then if you throw in the Episcopals and Presbyterians well my, my that is huge, and what their denominations have to say is irrelevant?

Spoken by a true evangelical. Why is it irrelevant what the 1700 year old Church has to say?

 

If this is true, it is irrelevant which books are in the Bible since the Church had a great deal to say about which ones it included.

 

They have read the same words and have come to a different conclusion than you - what does this say? I also believe that the Catholic Church is the largest Christian denomination in the world. Then if you throw in the Episcopals and Presbyterians well my, my that is huge, and what their denominations have to say is irrelevant?

 

That term is one that you can use if you feel the need to define me.

 

So will the Pope decide who gets into Heaven?

Will the Episopal bishops?

Will the local pastor/minister/preacher whatever you want to call it?

Will the elders at my church?

 

No, they won't.

 

The denominations are for man to feel good about themselves.

There are and will not be any different denominations in Jesus Church. Only his Christians.

 

So, it is very important that we know what Jesus said. He said he was the ONLY way to know the Father. He was the Way, the Truth and the Life.

 

He was either right.

Or he was a crackpot to claim he was the Son of God, Savior and Messiah.

That term is one that you can use if you feel the need to define me.

 

So will the Pope decide who gets into Heaven?

Will the Episopal bishops?

Will the local pastor/minister/preacher whatever you want to call it?

Will the elders at my church?

 

No, they won't.

 

The denominations are for man to feel good about themselves.

There are and will not be any different denominations in Jesus Church. Only his Christians.

 

So, it is very important that we know what Jesus said. He said he was the ONLY way to know the Father. He was the Way, the Truth and the Life.

 

He was either right.

Or he was a crackpot to claim he was the Son of God, Savior and Messiah.

 

 

So what happens when YOU and the Catholic Church differ on what you believe Jesus meant when he spoke? By the way, I would venture to say, based on many of your other posts, that you are not specifically a 'red letter' Christian and that you put a lot of emphasis on what Paul and others had to say as well.

 

FWIW the protestant reformation was based more on what Paul had to say than on what Jesus had to say.

So what happens when YOU and the Catholic Church differ on what you believe Jesus meant when he spoke? By the way, I would venture to say, based on many of your other posts, that you are not specifically a 'red letter' Christian and that you put a lot of emphasis on what Paul and others had to say as well.

 

FWIW the protestant reformation was based more on what Paul had to say than on what Jesus had to say.

 

Do Paul's teachings differ?

The denominations are for man to feel good about themselves.

I don't feel that is an entirely accurate statement. The denominations exist for helping people interpret God's will.

Do Paul's teachings differ?

 

My post was in response to LBBC who says it is important to know what Jesus said. I happen to think what Paul says is on occasion tainted by his humanity and is different from what Jesus says.