In no way is this a "bush league" move. The coach whether he knew the rule or not did what many coaches and players have done throughout the history of baseball and that is try to take advantage of the situation. I have seen it at the high school level, college level, and professional level. In this case the umpire fell for it (or perhaps he didn't know the rule). Also if the coach yelled balk simultaneously with the pitcher's throw to third who is to say the umpire was not going to call it anyhow? Maybe it was a coincidence that the coach's call and the umpire's call came right after one another.

 

And no taking advantage of the situation is not "bush league."

Bush, maybe getting out coached?

So a dad that's coaching a team for kids to get reps should make sure his kids are aware of every scenario in the game? They're probably getting together once, maybe twice a week. Be realistic.

 

Because this isn't high school, college or MLB and it IS fall ball; it is bush. The other coach did it for one reason and one reason only, to win the game. That, to me, is worse than the coach that didn't have time to teach his kids the rule.

So a dad that's coaching a team for kids to get reps should make sure his kids are aware of every scenario in the game? They're probably getting together once, maybe twice a week. Be realistic.

 

Because this isn't high school, college or MLB and it IS fall ball; it is bush. The other coach did it for one reason and one reason only, to win the game. That, to me, is worse than the coach that didn't have time to teach his kids the rule.

 

Sticky Mits, maybe they should stop keeping score in Fall Ball. This is an old debate, how important are sports and what are we teaching the kids. Well, let's take the scorebook and scoreboard down. Let's stick with the tee-ball mentality, nobody wins, nobody loses. Hmmm, that's reality isn't it????

Yeah, because that's what I said.

 

Again, unrealistic expectations of a parent coaching kids in the fall, for reps.

 

It has nothing to do with the score or scoreboard. It has to do with an overzealous coach going for the all-time fall baseball wins record.

 

Ironically no one is hammering the coach that pulled the stunt for not knowing the game. He wasn't teaching his kids either, but you'll let that slide because you think it's all about winning.

Yeah, because that's what I said.

 

Again, unrealistic expectations of a parent coaching kids in the fall, for reps.

 

It has nothing to do with the score or scoreboard. It has to do with an overzealous coach going for the all-time fall baseball wins record.

 

Ironically no one is hammering the coach that pulled the stunt for not knowing the game. He wasn't teaching his kids either, but you'll let that slide because you think it's all about winning.

 

You are very wrong if you think most Fall high-school aged teams are coached solely by clueless dads. Maybe for younger aged kids, but not at the high school level. Most of the high school aged kids playing Fall ball are very good players whose sole sport is baseball and take the game very seriously. Why don't you go out to some of these Fall high-school age games sometime and ask the boys if they are trying and would like to win.

 

And your comment that the move was by "an overzealous coach going for the all-time fall baseball wins record" is totally inappropriate unless you are specifically familiar with this situation. There is nothing - NOTHING - wrong with working on legitimate baserunning techniques/strategies during Fall ball and to essentially call this coach a classless jerk is pretty far over the top and completely unnecessary.

 

And keep in mind that the original poster's concern was that it was "bush league" because it might prevent the team with the "best talent" from winning. Not that winning wasn't important, only that winning should apparently be decided solely upon who pitches/hits the best. There is far more to the game of baseball than those issues.

 

I didn't witness this play nor do I have any earthly clue the coach involved. But if it involved high school aged kids in the league I suspect in which it occurred, neither the play nor the coach's reaction is bush league in my book.

 

And BTW, it is possible to balk in this situation. We were not given a fully detailed description of the pitcher's actions, and lacking such, I can assure you that it is VERY possible for a pitcher to still have balked during that play even though the rules allow him to throw to an unoccupied base.

You are very wrong if you think most Fall high-school aged teams are coached solely by clueless dads. Maybe for younger aged kids, but not at the high school level. Most of the high school aged kids playing Fall ball are very good players whose sole sport is baseball and take the game very seriously. Why don't you go out to some of these Fall high-school age games sometime and ask the boys if they are trying and would like to win.

 

And your comment that the move was by "an overzealous coach going for the all-time fall baseball wins record" is totally inappropriate unless you are specifically familiar with this situation. There is nothing - NOTHING - wrong with working on legitimate baserunning techniques/strategies during Fall ball and to essentially call this coach a classless jerk is pretty far over the top and completely unnecessary.

 

And keep in mind that the original poster's concern was that it was "bush league" because it might prevent the team with the "best talent" from winning. Not that winning wasn't important, only that winning should apparently be decided soley upon who pitches/hits the best.

 

I wasn't there to witness this nor do I have any earthly clue the coach invovled. But if it invovled high school aged kids in the league I suspect in which it occurred, neither the play nor the coaches reaction is bush league in mind book.

 

"Solely clueless dads"...never said that. I clearly stated that they don't have the time to go over every scenario. I KNOW this team is coached by a parent, my guess is that this parent knows baseball. However, Sparky Anderson wouldn't have the time to go over this with these kids. I suggest you re-read what I wrote.

 

I never once commented on the kids and their effort. You're putting words in my mouth. I know EXACTLY what goes on at fall ball, which is my point.

 

Yelling "BALK" when it is not a balk is a legitimate baserunning technique? Tom Emanski missed that one. And again, you put words in my mouth by calling the coach a "classless jerk". I did not say or imply that. I said he simply did it to win a fall baseball game.

 

The initial poster has zero bearing on my opinion. I'm sure everyone's opinion would change if Myerhoff pulled his "steal second running toward right field" bit.

"Solely clueless dads"...never said that. I clearly stated that they don't have the time to go over every scenario. I KNOW this team is coached by a parent, my guess is that this parent knows baseball. However, Sparky Anderson wouldn't have the time to go over this with these kids. I suggest you re-read what I wrote.

 

I never once commented on the kids and their effort. You're putting words in my mouth. I know EXACTLY what goes on at fall ball, which is my point.

 

Yelling "BALK" when it is not a balk is a legitimate baserunning technique? Tom Emanski missed that one. And again, you put words in my mouth by calling the coach a "classless jerk". I did not say or imply that. I said he simply did it to win a fall baseball game.

 

The initial poster has zero bearing on my opinion. I'm sure everyone's opinion would change if Myerhoff pulled his "steal second running toward right field" bit.

 

I have no idea who coaches this team . . .

 

That play is for one thing and one thing only, to win the game. Is that the point of fall baseball?

 

Because this isn't high school, college or MLB and it IS fall ball; it is bush. The other coach did it for one reason and one reason only, to win the game.

 

It has nothing to do with the score or scoreboard. It has to do with an overzealous coach going for the all-time fall baseball wins record.

 

I am under the impression from your earlier post that you did not know the coach involved.

 

Actually, this was a high-school aged game. And this was not some bizarre "steal towards right field" base-running play. For all we know, the kid may have simply broken early by accident.

 

The coach yelling "balk" is not in and of itself "bush." As I've tried to say, it is something that oftens occurs spontaneously, almost instinctually, with most coaches. I've done it many times myself. I assure you I am not a "bush" coach. Been called lots of things, but never "bush." Just an immediate reaction that can occur when you see something like this happen. Yes, granted, the coach was wrong in that it wasn't actually a balk, but coaches make mistakes, too. His mistake was not that he yelled "balk" but that, in that particular instance, he was wrong in that it wasn't a balk. (I think that last comment makes sense).

 

And comments calling a coach you apparently don't know "overzealous" and "only concerned with winning" and going for "all-time fall wins records" most certainly do appear to come off as calling the coach classless. Maybe you know the guy. Maybe he is. But based on the scenario given, that is way too far of a leap.

High school aged baseball game yesterday. Runner on 2nd. Pitcher in stretch. Coach has R2 intentionally take off for 3rd before the pitcher starts for home. Pitcher throws to 3rd. R2, seeing the pitcher is throwing to 3rd, immediately stops running at which point coach yells "balk." Umpire incorrectly agrees with him and gives him the balk.

 

While I was not at all happy with the umpire for not knowing the rule I was even more upset with the bush league tactics of a coach whose only goal was to get the balk called. He didn't know the rule but even if the rule was written as he thought it was, its a terrible bush league move.

Not a bush league play at all. Some pitchers have very good moves and a runners only chance for stealing a base is going on pitchers first move. If pitcher goes home, you have an easy stolen base. If he throws to 3rd, you have time to get back. If the runner goes on first move, a base hit anywhere scores him easily! By the way what was the score and who was winning?:thumb:

I am under the impression from your earlier post that you did not know the coach involved.

 

Actually, this was a high-school aged game. And this was not some bizarre "steal towards right field" base-running play. For all we know, the kid may have simply broken early by accident.

 

The coach yelling "balk" is not in and of itself "bush." As I've tried to say, it is something that oftens occurs spontaneously, almost instinctually, with most coaches. I've done it many times myself. I assure you I am not a "bush" coach. Been called lots of things, but never "bush." Just an immediate reaction that can occur when you see something like this happen. Yes, granted, the coach was wrong in that it wasn't actually a balk, but coaches make mistakes, too. His mistake was not that he yelled "balk" but that, in that particular instance, he was wrong in that it wasn't a balk. (I think that last comment makes sense).

 

And comments calling a coach you apparently don't know "overzealous" and "only concerned with winning" and going for "all-time fall wins records" most certainly do appear to come off as calling the coach classless. Maybe you know the guy. Maybe he is. But based on the scenario given, that is way too far of a leap.

 

Should've clarified, NOW I know who coaches the team.

 

I've yelled balk too, but only when it's a balk. A lot of times when someone yells balk, everyone stops and looks around. Hell, the third base coach may even know the rule and still yelled it to ensure his kid was safe.

 

Whether anyone wants to call this coach 'bush' or not, you can't put blame on the other coach, it's fall baseball. Which brings me back to my initial point...

 

I don't consider "only concerned with winning" and "all-time fall wins record" as calling someone classless. If I knew all the details and thought he was, I'd come out and say it...

Should've clarified, NOW I know who coaches the team.

 

I've yelled balk too, but only when it's a balk. A lot of times when someone yells balk, everyone stops and looks around. Hell, the third base coach may even know the rule and still yelled it to ensure his kid was safe.

 

Whether anyone wants to call this coach 'bush' or not, you can't put blame on the other coach, it's fall baseball. Which brings me back to my initial point...

 

I don't consider "only concerned with winning" and "all-time fall wins record" as calling someone classless. If I knew all the details and thought he was, I'd come out and say it...

 

But surely you're not above making a mistake, right? I mean, I know baseball rules pretty darn well. Far better than most I assure you. And (perhaps arrogantly) consider myself to be a pretty good coach. Unfortunatley, however, I have made some pretty stupid mistakes while coaching, including on a rare occasion or two protesting to an umpire that I felt a balk occurred when it might not have (balk rules can be very tricky things sometimes! :creepy:).

 

So let's say this coach - whom you know and I don't - simply innocently erred and spontaneously yelled balked even though it wasn't. That doesn't automatically mean it was part of a designed play on his part to GET the pitcher to balk. If it was - and ONLY if it was - then I'll give you the "bush" part. But that's reading awfully far into the scenario that was initially presented. Simply spontaneously yelling out "balk" - be the coach right or wrong about the actual perceived balk movement by the pitcher - makes him human, not "bush" league.

 

And while "classless" may (or may not) have been an unfair paraphrase of your collective statements, you clearly made some assumptions about this guy that would be hard to justify not knowing the person or the specific situation. You can't automatically assume his utterance was intentional or malacious and (without knowing the person) certainly can't classify him as a "win at all costs" type of coach based on this one very isolated incident.

 

Okay, this was debated ad naseum. Time to get mentally prepared for Friday Night football. :thumb:

In baseball it's not always the fastest and strongest that win, baseball is a thinking mans game. I don't see it as bush league at all.

But surely you're not above making a mistake, right? I mean, I know baseball rules pretty darn well. Far better than most I assure you. And (perhaps arrogantly) consider myself to be a pretty good coach. Unfortunatley, however, I have made some pretty stupid mistakes while coaching, including on a rare occasion or two protesting to an umpire that I felt a balk occurred when it might not have (balk rules can be very tricky things sometimes! :creepy:).

 

So let's say this coach - whom you know and I don't - simply innocently erred and spontaneously yelled balked even though it wasn't. That doesn't automatically mean it was part of a designed play on his part to GET the pitcher to balk. If it was - and ONLY if it was - then I'll give you the "bush" part. But that's reading awfully far into the scenario that was initially presented. Simply spontaneously yelling out "balk" - be the coach right or wrong about the actual perceived balk movement by the pitcher - makes him human, not "bush" league.

 

And while "classless" may (or may not) have been an unfair paraphrase of your collective statements, you clearly made some assumptions about this guy that would be hard to justify not knowing the person or the specific situation. You can't automatically assume his utterance was intentional or malacious and (without knowing the person) certainly can't classify him as a "win at all costs" type of coach based on this one very isolated incident.

 

Okay, this was debated ad naseum. Time to get mentally prepared for Friday Night football. :thumb:

 

If I wasn't sure I'd question, not yell. I've definitely been wrong before and will be again.

 

Everyone has made assumptions in this thread. No different than you assuming he didn't know the rule. You don't know that for sure. And again, fall baseball is not the place...

 

I'm fine, HHS plays tomorrow...

You guys haven't really mentioned the important factor here. If the umpire makes the correct call, this isn't an issue. It's the umpire's mistake, he shouldn't be thrown by a coach yelling balk or anything else.

Yeah, because that's what I said.

 

Again, unrealistic expectations of a parent coaching kids in the fall, for reps.

 

It has nothing to do with the score or scoreboard. It has to do with an overzealous coach going for the all-time fall baseball wins record.

 

Ironically no one is hammering the coach that pulled the stunt for not knowing the game. He wasn't teaching his kids either, but you'll let that slide because you think it's all about winning.

 

Sticky it was not bush league at all. He said these were high school kids right? Well if their in high school they should know mostly all these rules by now. My coach taught me these rules when we were in knothole. If a team and a coach knows the rules, why shouldn't they be able to do it? I mean as you said if fall ball is just to learn. Then why shouldn't the team who knows the rules be able to do it, I mean they get practice at doing these things. Also if I am the other team and don't know the rules. I would be happy that they did, because that is something that team would learn then. So now when the real season comes along, they will know better to not let it happen to them then. In fall ball yeah its to get the kids more at bats and things like that. However its also a time to try things and work on all parts of the game, and that is one of the parts of the game.