I think y'all are letting the fact that you're Bengal Fans cloud your judgement a bit. I'm not so sure that Carson Palmer should be considered untouchable. His passer rating has went down each of the past 3 seasons, his Touchdown Passes have went down in each of the past 3 seasons and his Interceptions have went up in each of the past 3 seasons. I think physically his body is much older than what his chronilogical age is. He's 28 but I don't know that he'll ever be the same physically as he was before his knee injury. Let's say this rebuilding project takes 3 seasons beyond this one. Then you have a 31 year old quarterback who will more than likely be on the downside of his career and might hold you back instead of help you. His trade value would be higher now than it ever will, why not trade him now and use the draft picks to improve the team quicker? After all the following quarterbacks have led their team to the Super Bowl this decade: Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck and Rex Grossman.

I'm not saying you deliberately go out and overpay on the market. But, you can't expect a low-ball bid to get high-caliber talent to come here to play for the Bengals. (Maybe to the Cowboys or Patriots, maybe)

 

As to whether getting a key free agent can get you to the Super Bowl, I look at Randy Moss and Plaxico Burress from last year, Rodney Harrison and Mike Vrabel (also with the Pats), Shannon Sharpe for the Ravens, just to name a few of the "stars". But, I'd be surprised that if you went through the starting offensive and defensive lines from the past 5 Super Bowls, that every single person was drafted by those clubs. So, yes, spending some money to get a free agent can get you to the Super Bowl. Will it do all the time...no. And when it does work for you, will it automatically be the next year...again, not necessarily.

 

That Patriots acquired Moss through a trade.

 

Absolutely it works...after you've got your house in order. You have to be close to the top before a big free agent will put you over.

 

You do have to use both. But, if you're depending on free agents to build the cornerstone of your team, it never works. If your team is run right, then free agency is primarily used to fill holes in your roster and add quality depth...then, if you have a solid foundation and you the market provides the opportunity to add that big piece, go for it.

 

Obviously, all the players on a team weren't drafted by them. But, the majority of them were. And, if you looked at the impact players on their lines, I'd say the percentage would be even higher.

 

My point is that you have to build the foundation of your team through the draft and make good decisions in free agency to add the right complementary pieces and quality depth. The opportunity to land stud free agents will always be there. The key is being in a position to take advantage...

My point is that you have to build the foundation of your team through the draft and make good decisions in free agency to add the right complementary pieces and quality depth. The opportunity to land stud free agents will always be there. The key is being in a position to take advantage...

 

I think we're on the same page, as you make excellent points. Unfortunately for the Bengals, they have not gotten the long-term impact we had hoped for from recent drafts (Pollack, Thurman, Irons, etc). I'm just saying that when you think you've found that one "missing piece"...money shouldn't be an issue that holds you back.

 

And as for Moss...duh! Brain cramp on my part!!

No team in the NFL can hope to have long term success without being able to draft well. The Bengals are not going to be a key player until they improve their scouting, let's face it they may get a few borderline FA's, but they will have to overpay.

2. T.J. is roughly 3 months older than Chad. He's far more consistent and dependable...not to mention, his style would age better because he's more of a possession guy. Chad is more of a big play guy who depends on speed and quickness.

 

3. You can't switch to the 3-4 without the personnel, and the Bengals most certainly don't have it. That switch probably would take at least a couple of off-seasons to get the players needed to run it. I agree on Jackson...not sure about the current DT's though. Whether or not I kept them would depend on what I could do in the draft and free agency. May not have any alternative but to ride it out another season with them.

 

4. A good center would definitely help...I'd try to get one somehow...whether it was a solid FA pickup or identifying a good one in the draft.

 

5. I'm not going to speculate on where the Bengals finish...I only gave them the #1 pick in this case so there wouldn't be any question of who you'd draft. You can have whoever you want. There's no way I'd look at anything but offensive and defensive lines in the first round with the Bengals roster. A good RB can be picked up in round 2 or 3 (even later than that sometimes)...

 

1. Chad Johnson is already under contract for next year, TJ is not. If you say you trade Chad, well its probably going to cost more money to sign TJ back then what is left on Chads contract. So once again spending a lot of money on offense. I would stick with Chad, Henry, Chatman and the two young receivers.

 

3. Teams every year decide to switch their defenses, the bengals seriously thought about it before this year. They have guys who can play Nose Tackle in the two big dudes they drafted this year. Frostee Rucker, Peko, and the one Utah player who I can't remember his name right now. Now Odom yeah I not sure if he can play DE in a 3/4 or not. Geathers though would be capable of being an outside backer who rushes the QB a lot. Our 4/3 right now is useless, we don't get any pressure with the front 4. So letting go of people like Thorton and a few other defensive tackles, would be some of the personal moves I make. They already have some linebackers that would be very capable of the move to the 3/4. Moving to a 3/4 wouldn't be a drastic of a change as you think IMO.

 

5. Remember the Bengals did draft that Big tackle last year in the draft as well in Collins I think his name is. Yeah they probably should draft another lineman in upcoming draft, but like a guard or center IMO. Yeah you could get a good one later still. That is why I said if there is like a top runningback available, like a real stand out. This offense has been missing having a top runningback very badly. Other than that I would draft a pass rushing lineback and DE's for the defense.

No team in the NFL can hope to have long term success without being able to draft well. The Bengals are not going to be a key player until they improve their scouting, let's face it they may get a few borderline FA's, but they will have to overpay.

 

I agree. However in defense of Marvin he hasn't had the best of luck with some things. If Pollack and Odell were still playing, then that would be huge on the defensive side. Chris Perry has been hurt most of his career. Chris Henry has been off and on as well. Yeah I know people will say shouldn't have drafted Henry and Thurman. However teams all the times take chances on players, sometimes it pays off sometimes it dont. I mean right now every thinks Dallas Cowboys are the best team or at least one of them. And they are full of guys who have been trouble makers, or not team players. No one really cares about that though since they are winning. Winning changes everything, and well not having those players have really hurt.

I think y'all are letting the fact that you're Bengal Fans cloud your judgement a bit. I'm not so sure that Carson Palmer should be considered untouchable. His passer rating has went down each of the past 3 seasons, his Touchdown Passes have went down in each of the past 3 seasons and his Interceptions have went up in each of the past 3 seasons. I think physically his body is much older than what his chronilogical age is. He's 28 but I don't know that he'll ever be the same physically as he was before his knee injury. Let's say this rebuilding project takes 3 seasons beyond this one. Then you have a 31 year old quarterback who will more than likely be on the downside of his career and might hold you back instead of help you. His trade value would be higher now than it ever will, why not trade him now and use the draft picks to improve the team quicker? After all the following quarterbacks have led their team to the Super Bowl this decade: Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck and Rex Grossman.

 

I still can't believe some of you people want to us to get rid of Palmer. Some of you really must not remember how bad it was with QB's since Boomer until Palmer came. The whole Palmer not being the same since injury is wrong IMO as well. A lot of you seem to forget that Palmer did EVERYTHING he could to get this team in the playoffs in 2006. He led drives that should have won the games, he has even did that this year against the Giants. Palmer is still one of the best in the game. Yeah his numbers have went down a little since 2005. However his numbers were so good in 2005 like the passing rating it had to come down some. In 2007 he had no running game so people keyed the pass, now this year he just dont have time to throw the ball. When he has he has done just fine. This team is Palmers, and needs to keep building around Palmer.

 

Also Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Ben Rothelisburger are all top QB's who have won super bowls this decade as well. The QB's you named yeah they won the super bowl, and then did nothing after that and the team went down. The guys I named have won super bowls and win consistently and its because they are top QB's and their teams have been built around them. The same should be for Palmer, getting rid of him is not the answer.

As long as Mike Brown is the owner of this Team, it really doesn't matter.

As long as Mike Brown is the owner of this Team, it really doesn't matter.

 

Right. But this thread is built on the hypothetical. I think it's very interesting.

I still can't believe some of you people want to us to get rid of Palmer. Some of you really must not remember how bad it was with QB's since Boomer until Palmer came. The whole Palmer not being the same since injury is wrong IMO as well. A lot of you seem to forget that Palmer did EVERYTHING he could to get this team in the playoffs in 2006. He led drives that should have won the games, he has even did that this year against the Giants. Palmer is still one of the best in the game. Yeah his numbers have went down a little since 2005. However his numbers were so good in 2005 like the passing rating it had to come down some. In 2007 he had no running game so people keyed the pass, now this year he just dont have time to throw the ball. When he has he has done just fine. This team is Palmers, and needs to keep building around Palmer.

 

Also Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Ben Rothelisburger are all top QB's who have won super bowls this decade as well. The QB's you named yeah they won the super bowl, and then did nothing after that and the team went down. The guys I named have won super bowls and win consistently and its because they are top QB's and their teams have been built around them. The same should be for Palmer, getting rid of him is not the answer.

 

I'd buy the bolded if he hadn't squandered 20 seconds at the end of the game, which gave the Bengals no alternative except a field goal. So, to be correct, this year he lead a drive that should have tied the game, and it did. If he'd have been more efficient with his time, the Bengals could have had one, possibly two, plays from the 5-yard line to win the game.

 

As it was, he wasted twenty seconds so Graham could kick an XP instead of a 40 yarder.

I'd buy the bolded if he hadn't squandered 20 seconds at the end of the game, which gave the Bengals no alternative except a field goal. So, to be correct, this year he lead a drive that should have tied the game, and it did. If he'd have been more efficient with his time, the Bengals could have had one, possibly two, plays from the 5-yard line to win the game.

 

As it was, he wasted twenty seconds so Graham could kick an XP instead of a 40 yarder.

 

Not defending him, nor attacking him...but here's what I understood of the situation. After the completed pass with about 24 seconds left, they were going to spike the ball to stop the clock. The only thing was, they hadn't made the first down, so spiking the ball would have brought up 4th down.

 

So, Carson was told (via the headset in the helmet) to run a certain play. It just took time to get all the personnel in the right spot, and the play relayed to them. Then they get it down inside the 5, there's not enough time to run any additional plays before having to kick the FG.

 

My question would be...shouldn't the offensive coordinator have planned for that exact possibility and had a play called beforehand, on second down? Or don't you go ahead and use that last time out, know that you can always spike the ball later (after you have a 1st down) to stop the clock and send your field goal kicker out there??? :confused:

I'd buy the bolded if he hadn't squandered 20 seconds at the end of the game, which gave the Bengals no alternative except a field goal. So, to be correct, this year he lead a drive that should have tied the game, and it did. If he'd have been more efficient with his time, the Bengals could have had one, possibly two, plays from the 5-yard line to win the game.

 

As it was, he wasted twenty seconds so Graham could kick an XP instead of a 40 yarder.

 

He squandered 20 seconds cause the coaches thought he got the first down and were telling him to spike it. They realized it was not a first down and that is when they had to change the play and that it was took so long. What they should have done as soon as they realized that it was not a first down they should have just called time-out. And I put that on the coaches more than Palmer.

He squandered 20 seconds cause the coaches thought he got the first down and were telling him to spike it. They realized it was not a first down and that is when they had to change the play and that it was took so long. What they should have done as soon as they realized that it was not a first down they should have just called time-out. And I put that on the coaches more than Palmer.

 

Someone should have called timeout. QBs call TOs all the time when something is screwed up on the field. So CP is as much to blame as anyone. How many delays have the Bengals incurred this season? A QB has to be aware of game and clock situation at all times.

Someone should have called timeout. QBs call TOs all the time when something is screwed up on the field. So CP is as much to blame as anyone. How many delays have the Bengals incurred this season? A QB has to be aware of game and clock situation at all times.

 

:thumb:

 

Carson is as much to blame as anyone else.