I do agree this is about believers. However, have you ever seen it played out among believers? I just thought it interesting that when we act as God calls us to act, it's amazing how things like this are expected to be the norm.

Believe it or not, I have seen it in action the way the Bible instructs, and it is extremely amazing. The givers and receivers were of one accord... following the same guidelines. All were blessed.

 

I don't know why we don't live this way on a daily basis rather than as special moments that stand out as my memories do.

I would suggest you do nothing out of guilt, but out of love.

I appreciate that.

 

I do not love paying taxes for the reasons aforementioned.

 

I do love serving others with both my time and my giving.

 

They are two separate issues, and it genuinely angers me when misguided do-gooders attempt to blur the lines between the two insisting that goverment attempt to do what Christ calls each of us to do individually as part of His Kingdom. Government asks for more and more while wasting more and more on programs that enable lifestyles that draw us less and less toward the virtues encouraged by the Bible.

 

I am told that, "You will know the tree by the fruit it bears." A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.

 

When I examine the fruit coming from our great society programs I see urban families ripped apart, mothers with multiple children from different fathers, none of which have remained to raise the children they helped create. Children who now repeat the mistakes of their parents. I see abortion accepted as a normal means of birth control, killing millions of innocent and perfectly healthy little human miracles. I see lifestyles that used to be universally unacceptable now made part of the mainstream. I am aware of teens "hooking up" for immediate gratification with no lasting personal commitment. I see mega-millionaires putting on exhorbitant fund-raisers costing $25,000 or more per person, raising multiple-millions of dollars to support a candidate who himself is a multi-millionaire, to squander on ads slandering their opponent (this goes on on both sides by the way.) I see celebrity environmentalists including Al Gore jetting all over the world in private jets that burn more fuel in one flight than my entire family burns in gasoline, heating oil and natural gas in a year, wagging their fingers at me for the size of my "carbon footprint." I see things I could go on for another two days about. I have a hard time justifying any of them as "good fruit" and yet I'm supposed to love giving nearly half my labor and income to paying for things I believe would be better to chop down and toss in a fire?

 

My government has a job to protect my family and my neighbors from enemies foreign and domestic. It is called to preserve liberty and our abillity to pursue happiness. We are guaranteed nothing in regard to success or happiness. It is up to each of us to do our best, and achieve what we will. Government was never expected to become a giant breast that nurtures and cares for us from cradle to grave. This idea is devastating to building a culture of purpose, meaning and genuine achievement.

 

Adding a layer of "Christian charity" to a government that insists upon separation of church and state in every other area is absurd.

I appreciate that.

 

I do not love paying taxes for the reasons aforementioned.

 

I do love serving others with both my time and my giving.

 

They are two separate issues, and it genuinely angers me when misguided do-gooders attempt to blur the lines between the two insisting that goverment attempt to do what Christ calls each of us to do individually as part of His Kingdom. Government asks for more and more while wasting more and more on programs that enable lifestyles that draw us less and less toward the virtues encouraged by the Bible.

 

I am told that, "You will know the tree by the fruit it bears." A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.

 

When I examine the fruit coming from our great society programs I see urban families ripped apart, mothers with multiple children from different fathers, none of which have remained to raise the children they helped create. Children who now repeat the mistakes of their parents. I see abortion accepted as a normal means of birth control, killing millions of innocent and perfectly healthy little human miracles. I see lifestyles that used to be universally unacceptable now made part of the mainstream. I am aware of teens "hooking up" for immediate gratification with no lasting personal commitment. I see mega-millionaires putting on exhorbitant fund-raisers costing $25,000 or more per person, raising multiple-millions of dollars to support a candidate who himself is a multi-millionaire, to squander on ads slandering their opponent (this goes on on both sides by the way.) I see celebrity environmentalists including Al Gore jetting all over the world in private jets that burn more fuel in one flight than my entire family burns in gasoline, heating oil and natural gas in a year, wagging their fingers at me for the size of my "carbon footprint." I see things I could go on for another two days about. I have a hard time justifying any of them as "good fruit" and yet I'm supposed to love giving nearly half my labor and income to paying for things I believe would be better to chop down and toss in a fire?

 

My government has a job to protect my family and my neighbors from enemies foreign and domestic. It is called to preserve liberty and our abillity to pursue happiness. We are guaranteed nothing in regard to success or happiness. It is up to each of us to do our best, and achieve what we will. Government was never expected to become a giant breast that nurtures and cares for us from cradle to grave. This idea is devastating to building a culture of purpose, meaning and genuine achievement.

 

Adding a layer of "Christian charity" to a government that insists upon separation of church and state in every other area is absurd.

 

 

We the people

 

In order to form a MORE PERFECT UNION

Establish JUSTICE (defined differently by different people)

Insure domestic tranquility

Provide for the commond defense

PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE

SECURE THE BLESSINGS of liberty

We the people

 

In order to form a MORE PERFECT UNION

Establish JUSTICE (defined differently by different people)

Insure domestic tranquility

Provide for the commond defense

PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE

SECURE THE BLESSINGS of liberty

I'm going to have to let someone else take this one because I really don't want to post something I might regret later.

 

I do love you Ace... I simply disagree with your views on this one. :thumb:

Jesus also talks about the farmer who has so much he wants to build more barns to store his wealth, later that nite he passes away.

 

I have shown three different scripture stories that shows Jesus doesn't want us to be "Greedy" and this is a sin.

I guess here is really what bothers me.

 

Some, not all, think that abortion is a sin so they want the government to make it illegal.

 

Some, not all, think that marriage is God given and is between a man and a woman, morally - so they want the government to make homosexual marriages illegal (because it is a sin)

 

But when it comes to economics - "it is MY money" I can better decide what to do with it.

 

It drives me batty that doing what you wish with your money is more important and deserves more freedom than doing what you want with your body, or even more especially what what you want to do with your love.

 

Jesus talks about greed and poverty more than he talks about anything else. To me it is His most important subject. Why then do WE spend so much time regulating sex and love and medical decisions and so little time regulating what we do with money?

 

Greed and unregulated money grabbing has caused more harm to people in this country than gay marriage ever will, but when it comes to legislating morals on money . . . no siree bob, you leave my money alone but by goodness I will certainly tell you whom you can and can't marry. It is just crazy.

Ace Great POINTS:thumb::thumb:

 

You should become a libertarian like myself:dancingpa

 

Let me do with my money with what I will and also, do not question how I live, worry about yourself

 

 

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!:jump:

What is crazy to me is not recognizing the greed, corruption and unregulated money grabbing that takes place on Capitol Hill, by politicians more interested in attaining and preserving their hold on power than on the actual effects of the money they confiscate and spend wantonly.

 

I will agree with you on this, the Church has dropped the ball in many ways... but to hand its role to the government is both dangerous and insane.

 

More man-made government is not the answer.

Ace Great POINTS:thumb::thumb:

 

You should become a libertarian like myself:dancingpa

 

Let me do with my money with what I will and also, do not question how I live, worry about yourself

 

 

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!:jump:

What Ace post did you read that indicates that he is in favor of you doing with your money what you will?

 

I'm reading quite the opposite message from him.

What is crazy to me is not recognizing the greed, corruption and unregulated money grabbing that takes place on Capitol Hill, by politicians more interested in attaining and preserving their hold on power than on the actual effects of the money they confiscate and spend wantonly.

 

I will agree with you on this, the Church has dropped the ball in many ways... but to hand its role to the government is both dangerous and insane.

 

More man-made government is not the answer.

Very, very well-stated.

 

If we lived in a society full of people who did not personally try to help the poor, then maybe I'd agree with ace. But private citizens are generous, and less taxes will equal more giving. Coupled with the fact that low taxes = more economic growth, I believe that a society with a smaller government is the one that is most helpful to the poor.

Very, very well-stated.

 

If we lived in a society full of people who did not personally try to help the poor, then maybe I'd agree with ace. But private citizens are generous, and less taxes will equal more giving. Coupled with the fact that low taxes = more economic growth, I believe that a society with a smaller government is the one that is most helpful to the poor.

 

the economy is booming with the most recent tax cuts . . . lowest job growth in a generation. where is all that investment? It certainly was not in more jobs. People don't put their money back into mortar and bricks anymore, they play with it on the stock market.

 

Again, as I have stated several times, IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT TAXES, it is about changing the system that favors wealth over everything else. And fwiw, even the denominational churches understand that putting money together is more powerful and more can be done than simply with the local church. Local churches cannot provide health/care and insurance to people - can't do it. Local churches are not going to provide inexpensive mass transit at the local level - can't do it. Local churches cannot provide affordable post secondary education for the masses - can't do it. They can feed and clothe those who are needy, but they only change the system throught the government.

...they only change the system throught the government.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

I’ve been thinking about this issue, and I have to say, it has caused me to reconsider how I manage my time and money... so for that I am genuinely thankful. As I see it, this entire issue boils down to a matter of personal responsibility. I truly want to be as responsible with the blessings and resources God has placed in my life as I possibly can be.

 

When our time comes to stand before our Maker, it will fall upon each of our shoulders to account for our own actions… not those of our brother, sister, wife, mother, dad, kids, neighbor or elected politicians. Did we make Jesus Christ our Lord as well as our Savior? Did we build a loving relationship with Him, or did we spend our time running from Him. Did we live a life of loving and giving, or a selfish pursuit of our own gain and glory? Did we cause others to stumble, or encourage and help them?

 

For this reason, I genuinely and deeply feel that an overarching government that attempts to be all and do all in people’s lives is a tremendous stumbling block to authentic Christianity. We have no choice but to pay our taxes or go to jail. This is kind of along the lines of “Why didn’t God just make us blindly obedient to Him in the first place, so we couldn’t sin and be separated from Him.” God wants our love and obedience because it is genuine and freely returned to Him… not because we’re spiritual robots programmed to do nothing else… or as the Fred Phelps types preach and the IRS enforces, because we’re scared not to.

 

I pay taxes because I have to. I give to others because I choose to. Big difference.

 

I genuinely do not think that on the great day of judgment we will hear God tell us, “You paid all your taxes. They went into a tremendous social welfare system that eventually trickled through the bureaucracy to bless the needy with what little bit remained. Well done, My good and faithful servant. You avoided imprisonment for failure to pay, enter into my Kingdom.” I do believe however, that He will hold us accountable for personal acts of responsibility that did or did not go beyond what we had to do along with everyone else who didn't believe in Him and love Him.

I guess here is really what bothers me.

 

Some, not all, think that abortion is a sin so they want the government to make it illegal.

 

Some, not all, think that marriage is God given and is between a man and a woman, morally - so they want the government to make homosexual marriages illegal (because it is a sin)

 

But when it comes to economics - "it is MY money" I can better decide what to do with it.

 

It drives me batty that doing what you wish with your money is more important and deserves more freedom than doing what you want with your body, or even more especially what what you want to do with your love.

 

Jesus talks about greed and poverty more than he talks about anything else. To me it is His most important subject. Why then do WE spend so much time regulating sex and love and medical decisions and so little time regulating what we do with money?

 

Greed and unregulated money grabbing has caused more harm to people in this country than gay marriage ever will, but when it comes to legislating morals on money . . . no siree bob, you leave my money alone but by goodness I will certainly tell you whom you can and can't marry. It is just crazy.

 

I'm glad someone else realizes the lunacy of this. These views aren't innate; they are a testament to the ridiculous dichotomy of political issues in our society that has manifested itself as the two-party system.

To My Dear Brother or Sister FastBreak:

 

First, it was awesome to hear of the conviction that you felt about your time and resources. I too have been convicted many times in many ways.

 

Second, on the day of judgement, (which will happen), no matter what, we will and do fall short of the Glory of God, if not their would be no need for a sacrifice of His Son.

 

Third, we are called to follow the law, to live in peace, to love Our Father with all of our heart, mind and soul, to love our neighbor, and we have the great commission. This to me will some of the criteria that God will judge us on, which again goes back to the second part.

 

Now, I can not judge Ace on his or her conviction. However, Ace's is logic leads that person to believe that the idea of greed in country has over taken us and that we have turned our back's because we want more, more education, more stuff, more houses, we want to fill our lives with such things because society says we need them.

 

However, I am young, but to me life is way more important than just stuff, I look forward to the day of children, to the day of my marriage, to today.

 

Does this mean we do not work? No, we work, because we are commanded to do so. So the question becomes why do we work? Is it for greed? Is it for His Kingdom?

 

I would suggest that God has given us all talents to use for His Kingdom, that is why we should do our best, not for the pay check, but to helpfull fill the third point up top. Which interconnects with our convictions, which ultimately we get judged for.

 

Accouple of thoughts what do you think