So, which is more important to you, their world existence or their eternal existence?

 

And we DO NOT have oppressive poverty in this country.

Africa HAS oppressive poverty.

 

Why does it have to be either/or? Why does it have to be exclusively one versus the other?

 

I think an honest reading of Scripture is it is a both/and responsibility. :thumb:

Why does it have to be either/or? Why does it have to be exclusively one versus the other?

 

I think an honest reading of Scripture is it is a both/and responsibility. :thumb:

 

I really like it when we are on the same page in a thread. Doesn't mean we are correct, I just like having the company.:thumb:

I really like it when we are on the same page in a thread. Doesn't mean we are correct, I just like having the company.:thumb:

 

sometimes it's like the Maytag repair man, you get lonely.

Let's say there's a man.

 

He put's up his money and opens a business.

 

The business creates a lot of jobs.

 

This allows people to work and raise families.

 

And helps the economy.

 

In the process, the man becomes wealthy.

 

Just because he is wealthy does that make him greedy? Did he not help his fellow man?

Let's say there's a man.

 

He put's up his money and opens a business.

 

The business creates a lot of jobs.

 

This allows people to work and raise families.

 

And helps the economy.

 

In the process, the man becomes wealthy.

 

Just because he is wealthy does that make him greedy? Did he not help his fellow man?

 

http://www.mindfully.org/Sustainability/Americans-Consume-24percent.htm

 

 

The US has 5% of the world's population and uses 24% of the energy

 

The US consumes 815 BILLION calories each day - more than 200 BILLION more than needed - the extra 200 BILLION calores would feed 80 million PEOPLE.

 

Persons in the US use 159 gallons of water daily compared to 25 gallons per person in the rest of the world.

 

COUNTRY FIRST!!!!

http://www.mindfully.org/Sustainability/Americans-Consume-24percent.htm

 

 

The US has 5% of the world's population and uses 24% of the energy

 

The US consumes 815 BILLION calories each day - more than 200 BILLION more than needed - the extra 200 BILLION calores would feed 80 million PEOPLE.

 

Persons in the US use 159 gallons of water daily compared to 25 gallons per person in the rest of the world.

 

COUNTRY FIRST!!!!

 

And that has exactly what to do with the question I asked?

Let's say there's a man.

 

He put's up his money and opens a business.

 

The business creates a lot of jobs.

 

This allows people to work and raise families.

 

And helps the economy.

 

In the process, the man becomes wealthy.

 

Just because he is wealthy does that make him greedy? Did he not help his fellow man?

 

 

I don't know his heart or what else he does or does not do.

 

However the question almost sounds eerily like the Rich Young Ruler story from the Gospels. Maybe, maybe not. I usually let God decide. :thumb:

http://www.mindfully.org/Sustainability/Americans-Consume-24percent.htm

 

 

The US has 5% of the world's population and uses 24% of the energy

 

The US consumes 815 BILLION calories each day - more than 200 BILLION more than needed - the extra 200 BILLION calores would feed 80 million PEOPLE.

 

Persons in the US use 159 gallons of water daily compared to 25 gallons per person in the rest of the world.

 

COUNTRY FIRST!!!!

You really think we are greedy compared to the rest of the world?

 

See here

 

- For example, U.S. foundations gave more -- in money, time, goods and expertise -- than 11 of the 22 developed-country governments each gave in 2005, and U.S. private voluntary organizations totaled more than the governments of Japan, the United Kingdom, Germany and France each.

 

-U.S. official development assistance (ODA) in 2005 was $28 billion, the largest of all official donations by an individual country. But, according to the often-quoted measure used by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which compares government aid as a percentage of a country’s gross national income (GNI), U.S. government aid is only 0.22 percent of GNI, which ranks the United States as the 20th of the 22 listed donor states.

 

The United States government is ranked 20th out of 22nd in terms of how much it gives (as a percentage of GNI) Yet, the private contributions of our people ranks us above total contributions from most of the world's major countries. However, you want to give money to our government, which has proven itself stingy in terms of helping the cause of eliminating global poverty. Why don't you leave the money in the hands of American citizens, who have already done far more to aid the poor of the world then our government has?

You really think we are greedy compared to the rest of the world?

 

See here

 

- For example, U.S. foundations gave more -- in money, time, goods and expertise -- than 11 of the 22 developed-country governments each gave in 2005, and U.S. private voluntary organizations totaled more than the governments of Japan, the United Kingdom, Germany and France each.

 

-U.S. official development assistance (ODA) in 2005 was $28 billion, the largest of all official donations by an individual country. But, according to the often-quoted measure used by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which compares government aid as a percentage of a country’s gross national income (GNI), U.S. government aid is only 0.22 percent of GNI, which ranks the United States as the 20th of the 22 listed donor states.

 

The United States government is ranked 20th out of 22nd in terms of how much it gives (as a percentage of GNI) Yet, the private contributions of our people ranks us above total contributions from most of the world's major countries. However, you want to give money to our government, which has proven itself stingy in terms of helping the cause of eliminating global poverty. Why don't you leave the money in the hands of American citizens, who have already done far more to aid the poor of the world then our government has?

 

First of all, your research is good and revealing about much of the American population.

 

Secondly, I might not agree in totality with your conclusion, it is with merit.

 

But to be honest CC I think to compare "how" we act versus how "they" act (See, we might not be great but we are better than them.) doesn't cut it much with God. Scripture doesn't seem to give much of a pass to the argument of, "We might not be all we can be Lord but at least I'm better than my neighbor."

First of all, your research is good and revealing about much of the American population.

 

Secondly, I might not agree in totality with your conclusion, it is with merit.

 

But to be honest CC I think to compare "how" we act versus how "they" act (See, we might not be great but we are better than them.) doesn't cut it much with God. Scripture doesn't seem to give much of a pass to the argument of, "We might not be all we can be Lord but at least I'm better than my neighbor."

I get what you are saying, but my argument was primarily that if acemona truly wants to help eradicate world poverty (as the tone of his post indicated), the most effective way of doing so is keeping money in the hands of our people (who have shown to be generous) as opposed to our government.

I get what you are saying, but my argument was primarily that if acemona truly wants to help eradicate world poverty (as the tone of his post indicated), the most effective way of doing so is keeping money in the hands of our people (who have shown to be generous) as opposed to our government.

 

 

Gotcha. :thumb:

I don't know his heart or what else he does or does not do.

 

However the question almost sounds eerily like the Rich Young Ruler story from the Gospels. Maybe, maybe not. I usually let God decide. :thumb:

 

My point is are you doing a person a greater service by helping them to help themself, via a job or way of earning a living, or should you just give them money.

 

Teach a man to fish...

 

IMO too many people wrongly associate wealth with greed.

My point is are you doing a person a greater service by helping them to help themself, via a job or way of earning a living, or should you just give them money.

 

Teach a man to fish...

 

IMO too many people wrongly associate wealth with greed.

 

I think your last statement is true, but it doesn't mean that many are and can be very greedy. I have a guy in my church who is very, very wealthy. And yet he gives a lot of that just like you implied and beyond to our church and charities. On three occasions since I've been here he has given the church interest free loans for big projects. We've repaid those loans in a much shorter time and he contributes to those debts like he would if it was a loan with a bank (very generous).

 

On the other hand, I've seen many people whose greed did everything they could to block competition to their control and their earning capacity. Now an entire community reaps that harvest of unemployment and little industry.

 

And those who had means and blocked other industry for decades? They are retired now living on real estate, investments and interest.

 

I've seen both sides.

My point is are you doing a person a greater service by helping them to help themself, via a job or way of earning a living, or should you just give them money.

 

Teach a man to fish...

 

IMO too many people wrongly associate wealth with greed.

 

Good points. I would add, to your last statement, too many people also associate welfare with laziness.

I have 50 kids in a day treatment. Right now 35 of them are on Free lunch. Come tell them, who don't have a home to call their own, who ask us to help them buy basic needs, that poverty is not oppressive. The poverty keeps them from making choices.

 

Again, my MUCH is TOO much and THEIR little is TOO little. I fall under the greedy category.

 

What choices does it keep them from making?

 

And is that as much as their parent's fault as anyones?

 

I have known people who claimed they were in such horrible financial situations and people have helped them out. And they smoke two packs of cigarettes a day, drive a nicer car than I do, wondered why I had to pay for my child's braces when they got them free for their child on Medicaid, have cable/satelite and don't pay anything for their child to participate in athletics while I pay about $2,000 a year for my child to play the identical sports their child plays.

 

 

ABSOLUTELY there are people in horrible situations that you mentioned. But for everyone in that spot, I believe their would be 5 or 6 that could better their positin by being smarter in the choices they make.