If you disagree with the law than I guess you would have to say yes. It is perfectly with in his place as a presidential candidate to disagree with current law, being we live in a democracy it is perfectly justified to speak out against any law that we disagree with. WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAW, but you don't have to like it and are given the freedom to express our displeasure with it and our displeasure with the way it is implemented.

Actually we live in a Republic.

 

 

Disagreeing is one thing, labeling what ICE is doing as "terrorizing" is entirely another. The man has no shame; he will say whatever it takes for political expediency. I wonder, does he have a true stance on anything?

Disagreeing is one thing, labeling what ICE is doing as "terrorizing" is entirely another. The man has no shame; he will say whatever it takes for political expediency. I wonder, does he have a true stance on anything?

If they live in fear of ICE, from their perspective they are being terrorized. Your assumption that he is calling these people terrorist is a shameless abuse of the speech. I think most people see the bias in your message.

So illegal aliens cannot feel terror? Or we don't care about the terror they feel? Also, during these raids, are only illegals present?

 

I'm sorry I have very little sympathy for any hardship that an illegal has to face. If they hadn't broken the law by coming here in the first place they wouldn't be in that situation.

 

And I think more of you ire should be place at the feet of the company who put citizens in the position to be confronted by an ICE raid by hiring illegals in the first place.

 

From this rhetoric does it mean that if elected Obama will not fufil his obligation to enforce the laws of our country?

I'd rather you provide the links to it since you brought them to light in this thread. I'm not in the mood for a wild goose chase. :thumb:

 

Like I said, most of what I knew, I had read in print or heard on the radio. But it wasn't that hard to find links to the subject.:thumb:

 

 

http://www.swiftraid.org/

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2007_August_16/ai_n27346284

 

http://menendez.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=299036

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-06-24-Immigration-raids_N.htm

 

http://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/23/raymondville_inside_the_largest_immigration_prison

 

http://www.the-tidings.com/2008/070408/ice.htm

 

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/4/12122/59421

 

http://nightof1000conversations.org/media/facts/raids

 

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/10/ice.html

I'm sorry I have very little sympathy for any hardship that an illegal has to face. If they hadn't broken the law by coming here in the first place they wouldn't be in that situation.

 

And I think more of you ire should be place at the feet of the company who put citizens in the position to be confronted by an ICE raid by hiring illegals in the first place.

 

From this rhetoric does it mean that if elected Obama will not fufil his obligation to enforce the laws of our country?

 

First, the issue was over the correct use of the word "terrorize." If these people feel terror from how they are treated (not to mention the legal workers/citizens that are there when such raids occur) then yes, they are terrorized and the use of the word is correct.

 

As far as your last sentence, you can make all of the huge leaps and jumps that you want. Where you get that he won't enforce the laws of the country, I don't know, but I am sure you think it anyway.

 

Illegal immigration is not the only case of people breaking the law, yet every time it is talked about, there is an almost less then human consideration given to them. All "we" care about is that they are illegal. End of story.

 

Let's give the same considerations to these people that we do to shoplifters, speeders, tax invadors, and everyone else that breaks the law.

The issue is not over the meaning of the word. It's about Obama playing it up to the Hispanic community by saying that a government agency is bad because they do their job. The border patrol had similar issues for doing their jobs, with the exception that some of them went to jail for doing their jobs.

Obama speaks at La Raza Event:

 

Calling the ICE terrorists? ICE raids workplaces when they have probable cause to suspect an employer of hiring illegal aliens. They arrest workers who have false IDs and/or cannot prove their identification. This qualifies as terrorism?

 

The issue is not over the meaning of the word. It's about Obama playing it up to the Hispanic community by saying that a government agency is bad because they do their job. The border patrol had similar issues for doing their jobs, with the exception that some of them went to jail for doing their jobs.

 

According to the original post, that is the purpose of this thread.

 

However, if it is about Obama "playing it up" to the Hispanic community, McCain did the same thing when he addressed the NAACP the other day. He didn't attend the NAACP convention last year, so now it makes it seems as if he is doing so just because he is running against a black candidate. That might not be his intent, maybe he was just "busy" last year, but that's how it seems now. Additionally, if you read what he said, he did play to the crowd, just like most politicians (including Obama) do.

 

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/07/16/mccain_asks_naacp_audience_for.html?hpid=topnews

First, the issue was over the correct use of the word "terrorize." If these people feel terror from how they are treated (not to mention the legal workers/citizens that are there when such raids occur) then yes, they are terrorized and the use of the word is correct.

 

As far as your last sentence, you can make all of the huge leaps and jumps that you want. Where you get that he won't enforce the laws of the country, I don't know, but I am sure you think it anyway.

 

Illegal immigration is not the only case of people breaking the law, yet every time it is talked about, there is an almost less then human consideration given to them. All "we" care about is that they are illegal. End of story.

 

Let's give the same considerations to these people that we do to shoplifters, speeders, tax invadors, and everyone else that breaks the law.

 

I got a ticket for speeding while driving through a rural area of Georgia once. I was scared, should I not have been pulled over? Was the sherrif that pulled me over wrong in doing so because I was terrified? This was a long time a go and the movie Macon County Line was not that old. There was another male and a female passanger in my car. They had done nothing wrong and they were scared. Should the sherrif not have pulled us over?

 

Quite frankly as to your other examples of law breakers I'm all for scaring the daylights out of them. Maybe it will keep them from doing it again.

 

Do you think that in light of this speech that if elected Obama will continue to allow the ICE to conduct raids? If he doesn't then IMVHO he is preventing the enforcement of law. And you're right about one thing, as far as I'm concerned ILLEGALS did break the law and that the end of the story. They don't want to be put into a position where they may have to be subjected to that sort of terror, then don't break the law. It's as simple as 2+2 if you ask me.

According to the original post, that is the purpose of this thread.

 

However, if it is about Obama "playing it up" to the Hispanic community, McCain did the same thing when he addressed the NAACP the other day. He didn't attend the NAACP convention last year, so now it makes it seems as if he is doing so just because he is running against a black candidate. That might not be his intent, maybe he was just "busy" last year, but that's how it seems now. Additionally, if you read what he said, he did play to the crowd, just like most politicians (including Obama) do.

 

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/07/16/mccain_asks_naacp_audience_for.html?hpid=topnews

I didn't say just playing up to a community. That's a given for a politician. I said playing up by condemning people for doing their job.

I didn't say just playing up to a community. That's a given for a politician. I said playing up by condemning people for doing their job.

 

It depends on how they do their job. A teacher that ridicules a kid in class that is uncomfortable speaking may be doing their job, but I would condemn them for their method. A police officer that kicks a suspect in the ribs while he is on the ground may be doing their job, but I would condemn them for their method. It appears that some people doing their job as a member of ICE may need condemnation for their methods.

I got a ticket for speeding while driving through a rural area of Georgia once. I was scared, should I not have been pulled over? Was the sherrif that pulled me over wrong in doing so because I was terrified? This was a long time a go and the movie Macon County Line was not that old. There was another male and a female passanger in my car. They had done nothing wrong and they were scared. Should the sherrif not have pulled us over?

 

Quite frankly as to your other examples of law breakers I'm all for scaring the daylights out of them. Maybe it will keep them from doing it again.

 

Do you think that in light of this speech that if elected Obama will continue to allow the ICE to conduct raids? If he doesn't then IMVHO he is preventing the enforcement of law. And you're right about one thing, as far as I'm concerned ILLEGALS did break the law and that the end of the story. They don't want to be put into a position where they may have to be subjected to that sort of terror, then don't break the law. It's as simple as 2+2 if you ask me.

 

I'm sorry if the extent of your caring for illegals reaches only as far as their legality status, that you don't care for them and the issues they face as human beings. A great many of them are Catholic and I would hope that you could connect with them on the issue of faith at least (I assume you are catholic from your avatar and the thread you started today). But, that's where it ends for most people.

 

I don't think that Obama will stop the ICE raids. He may, however, push to see that it is accomplished in a better manner. If they are conducting raids without a warrant, as one poster here claimed, they are violating the law, too. If they are holding legal citizens without cause, that's an issue. If they are abusing or mistreating those that are illegal and captured, then need condemnation and those people need to lose their job.

I'm sorry if the extent of your caring for illegals reaches only as far as their legality status, that you don't care for them and the issues they face as human beings. A great many of them are Catholic and I would hope that you could connect with them on the issue of faith at least (I assume you are catholic from your avatar and the thread you started today). But, that's where it ends for most people.

 

I don't think that Obama will stop the ICE raids. He may, however, push to see that it is accomplished in a better manner. If they are conducting raids without a warrant, as one poster here claimed, they are violating the law, too. If they are holding legal citizens without cause, that's an issue. If they are abusing or mistreating those that are illegal and captured, then need condemnation and those people need to lose their job.

 

Their faith has nothing to do with their status as lawbreakers. I feel no less compassion for them then I do any other law breaker who is Catholic.

 

How do you accomplish them in a better manner? Do you give 24 hours notice? That would be really effective.

How much sympathy would I receive from any other nation's citizens if I entered their country illegally?

 

0

Their faith has nothing to do with their status as lawbreakers. I feel no less compassion for them then I do any other law breaker who is Catholic.

 

How do you accomplish them in a better manner? Do you give 24 hours notice? That would be really effective.

 

Have you read any of the links that shamrock fan posted? I am only through about half of them, but I can put together a list of alleged violations for you when I am finished.

 

For some reason, we hold so much more disdain for these lawbreakers then we do for so many others. Yes, maybe I have a lot more sympathy for them then I do for other lawbreakers, too. The vast majority of them work everyday for low pay doing jobs that we would wrinkle our nose at just to provide a little better life their families. Many of them would gladly pay taxes, but there would be no way that before they came to the states that they could save up for the legal expenses involved in establishing citizenship. So, they can stay in a country in which they will live in true poverty without the possibility of breaking the cycle or they can hope to make a better life somewhere else. I know that not all of illegals are like this, but these are the people that I feel sorry for. I don't feel the least bit bad or un-American by sympathizing with their plight and the struggle that they go through.

Like I said, most of what I knew, I had read in print or heard on the radio. But it wasn't that hard to find links to the subject.:thumb:

 

 

http://www.swiftraid.org/

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2007_August_16/ai_n27346284

 

http://menendez.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=299036

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-06-24-Immigration-raids_N.htm

 

http://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/23/raymondville_inside_the_largest_immigration_prison

 

http://www.the-tidings.com/2008/070408/ice.htm

 

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/4/12122/59421

 

http://nightof1000conversations.org/media/facts/raids

 

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/10/ice.html

Thanks for the links. See, that wasn't so hard now was it?

 

Reading through these, I have to agree with this assessment:

 

Julie Myers, the Department of Homeland Security's assistant secretary for ICE, says federal law, Supreme Court decisions and search warrants give ICE the authority to enter workplaces to question "all the people inside," including citizens. But she says ICE agents work fast to separate legal workers from suspected illegal ones.

 

"When we go in, a lot of people are pretending to be U.S. citizens, and then there are some people who are," she says. "Our goal is to make sure we work as quickly and efficiently as we can so that U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents are free to go."

 

No system is perfect, but Obama acts as though these are fascist thugs and his use of the word "terrorizing" was irresponsible.