Please....He went from starting for 3 years, 2 full years, to going to the bullpen and having saves of 52, 55, 45, then dropping off the map completely? I doubt it.. And "coincidentially" he dropped off when baseball started cracking down on steroids. Not saying injuries didn't play a role, but wonder why he had injury problems, it's known that once people stop taking steroids, that they have injury issues.

Gee, pitchers were having "injury issues" long before steroids became an issue, and they will long after steroids are gone.

Unfortunately yes, when there's that big of a difference in velocity.

And injuries have nothing to do with that?

And injuries have nothing to do with that?

 

When players have taken steroids, injuries are a result of being off of them.

 

 

Yes pitchers have injuries, all the time, but the good ones usually recover. Randy Johnson has been hurt a lot over the past couple of years but isn't pitching too badly and he's 40+. Gagne hasn't even been in the league 10 years.

 

 

He is a product of steroids, plain and simple.

Yes pitchers have injuries, all the time, but the good ones usually recover. Randy Johnson has been hurt a lot over the past couple of years but isn't pitching too badly and he's 40+. Gagne hasn't even been in the league 10 years.

Ever heard of Mark Fidrych? Steve Busby? Mark Prior? Baseball history is full of great pitchers whose careers were cut way short by injuries.

 

Every pitcher is different. Some can handle that kind of heavy workload and some can't.

He is a product of steroids, plain and simple.

Have any proof to go with that proclamation?

Ever heard of Mark Fidrych? Steve Busby? Mark Prior? Baseball history is full of great pitchers whose careers were cut way short by injuries.

 

Every pitcher is different. Some can handle that kind of heavy workload and some can't.

Have any proof to go with that proclamation?

 

 

 

1. Prior was different, his was more about a broken collarbone first wasn't it. It was that collison with Marcus Giles I thought. Like I said pitchers can get hurt, but Gagne hasn't missed the time that Prior has, I mean Gagne even pitched with Texas a little bit, it's the whole loss of major velocity, not having control, or even able to get anyone out that gives people a lot of reason to believe he took steroids.

 

2.Have you watched him pitch?

1. Prior was different, his was more about a broken collarbone first wasn't it. It was that collison with Marcus Giles I thought. Like I said pitchers can get hurt, but Gagne hasn't missed the time that Prior has, I mean Gagne even pitched with Texas a little bit, it's the whole loss of major velocity, not having control, or even able to get anyone out that gives people a lot of reason to believe he took steroids.

 

2.Have you watched him pitch?

Prior has had a slew of arm problems ... that's why he has hardly pitched over the last three years.

 

Yes, I've seen Gagne pitch ... his loss of velocity could easily be due entirely to injuries.

And injuries have nothing to do with that?

 

 

I'm not saying they didn't. I have no idea how much the injuries have to do with. I'm just saying, like it or not, whether Gagne ever did any steroids or not, people are always going to question it.

Prior pitching 129 innings his junior year at USC and 138 innings his senior year at USC have as much to do with his arm trouble as anything. That, and the mental toughness of a kitten.

I'm not saying they didn't. I have no idea how much the injuries have to do with. I'm just saying, like it or not, whether Gagne ever did any steroids or not, people are always going to question it.

As far as I know, Gagne wasn't mentioned in the Mitchell Report. And if he wasn't, then fans like SVfan4life are presuming guilt over innocence.

As far as I know, Gagne wasn't mentioned in the Mitchell Report. And if he wasn't, then fans like SVfan4life are presuming guilt over innocence.

 

 

I agree that many are presuming guilt over innocence, but do you honestly believe that the Mitchell report even came close to naming at least 50 % of the players that have used at one time or another?

I agree that many are presuming guilt over innocence, but do you honestly believe that the Mitchell report even came close to naming at least 50 % of the players that have used at one time or another?

I have no idea ... but given the way people have been ratting out others, I suspect they got a pretty decent percentage of them.

As far as I know, Gagne wasn't mentioned in the Mitchell Report. And if he wasn't, then fans like SVfan4life are presuming guilt over innocence.

 

 

You're dead wrong on this one. Gagne was long suspected by the baseball community in general of being a juicer and he WAS named in the Mitchell Report. Gagne's Steroid Use

You're dead wrong on this one. Gagne was long suspected by the baseball community in general of being a juicer and he WAS named in the Mitchell Report. Gagne's Steroid Use

 

:thumb:That's what I was thinking.

You're dead wrong on this one. Gagne was long suspected by the baseball community in general of being a juicer and he WAS named in the Mitchell Report. Gagne's Steroid Use

I didn't claim to know one way or the other. And really, I don't care ... I think the steroids issue is way overblown. If I cared, I would have Googled it before commenting on it.

 

Just because Gagne used HGH doesn't mean it, or the lack of it, led to his injury problems. And it doesn't mean it's responsible for his success, either. If Gagne, as the report seems to indicate, started using in 2004, it was already well after he had established himself as an elite closer.

 

A lot of pitchers, as I understand it, used steroids to help their recovery time, not necessarily to make them throw the ball harder or into better pitchers.

I didn't claim to know one way or the other. And really, I don't care ... I think the steroids issue is way overblown. If I cared, I would have Googled it before commenting on it.

 

Just because Gagne used HGH doesn't mean it, or the lack of it, led to his injury problems. And it doesn't mean it's responsible for his success, either. If Gagne, as the report seems to indicate, started using in 2004, it was already well after he had established himself as an elite closer.

 

A lot of pitchers, as I understand it, used steroids to help their recovery time, not necessarily to make them throw the ball harder or into better pitchers.

 

For a reliever the ability to recover quicker does make them a better pitcher. If the guy came come out of the bullpen and throw his hardest for several days in a row without having to be concerned about fatigue or loss of velocity when used multiple days in a row I would tend to think that makes them a better pitcher. Without the performance enhancer a pitcher loses something on their 2nd, 3rd or 4th day in a row if they go all out each trip. The report only has 2004 as a reference because that's when they could get documentation for it. Gagne was a suspected steroid user before that.