I also look for Harlan to simplify things offensively with a few wrinkles in place based on different personnel packages. Things should be a bit more basic on defense with the players grasping things better in the second year of DC Frank Shope's scheme. While there were some seniors, there were many sophomores and "new" upper classmen (Andrew Link, Ben Cornett, Allen Hensley, Kenny Pennington, James Hill) in key positions and leading by the end of last season. Those guys should be much improved with a year's experience.

I always felt that this year would be the team that had a hard time of getting it together, not last year. Hopefully there is still some pride over at the Gilly complex and this team gets it back on track. Cole, Hill, and Allen should give the dragons a solid line, Allen Hensley has got to become a bigger playmaker and Link looks stronger and a little quicker this can only help. Harlan is still a couple of classes away before they can make a serious run in the playoffs.

Does Harlan have a great Jr. High Class?

I also look for Harlan to simplify things offensively with a few wrinkles in place based on different personnel packages. Things should be a bit more basic on defense with the players grasping things better in the second year of DC Frank Shope's scheme. While there were some seniors, there were many sophomores and "new" upper classmen (Andrew Link, Ben Cornett, Allen Hensley, Kenny Pennington, James Hill) in key positions and leading by the end of last season. Those guys should be much improved with a year's experience.

Harlan seemed to run the same scheme on "D" last season as they have for the past 5 or 6.

I am not sure that they should be classified as great, but for a class A program the strength is in 7-8 grade as far as talent and numbers. The 8th grade class has 14-16 players and the 7th had twenty three that played as 6th graders so for shear numbers and depth these are the two classes that could carry the torch and put Harlan back in the hunt for a district and maybe a regional title, but as in any program that is a ways off from now.

There were some things the same on defense but Coach Shope seem to try new things throughout the year in an attempt to simplify things from Coach Perry and match personnel (or a lack thereof). Many times the changes only seemed to add confusion to some players. At the same time, when the same scheme was used or not, nothing could overcome the almost complete absence of team speed. When an assignment was blown, instead of a first down or 20 yard gain, it often meant a TD.

The 7/8 program cannot be called great yet, but it is true that the current 10/11/12 graders did not fare well at all in middle school (1 or 2 win seasons on most years). The rising freshmen were able to win 5 last year. The 8th graders this fall have won 7, 7, 5 in their three years of middle school so far. Again, no need to get crazy yet, but there should be more pieces for Coach D to work with if they all continue to play.

 

Also, as Bayshore says, there are good numbers at this point and a good mix of talent - several solid linemen in the rising 9th grade class and more skill in the rising 8th grade class. Numbers do mean a lot in Class A, proof being that Coach Donahue's two deepest playoff runs in his tenure (Dunson & Co. in 96 & Greer & Co. in 99), were the only 2 seasons in his tenure where he had more than 40 players on his roster.

 

Hey, I could talk middle school football all day, but none of these guys are taking Harlan to Papa John's this year. Can someone post the HHS schedule this year so we can analyze it?

I am not sure that they should be classified as great, but for a class A program the strength is in 7-8 grade as far as talent and numbers. The 8th grade class has 14-16 players and the 7th had twenty three that played as 6th graders so for shear numbers and depth these are the two classes that could carry the torch and put Harlan back in the hunt for a district and maybe a regional title, but as in any program that is a ways off from now.

 

Depending on what Hazard has coming up, a district title is not out of reach after Hazard's seniors this season graduate.

 

A regional title may be a different story. Paintsville overpowered Harlan in the game I saw last season. Harlan has gone from bad to average on the middle school level.

HDE, as usual, can say well in 30 words what I say in 300...I should have been a lawyer.

The 7/8 program cannot be called great yet, but it is true that the current 10/11/12 graders did not fare well at all in middle school (1 or 2 win seasons on most years). The rising freshmen were able to win 5 last year. The 8th graders this fall have won 7, 7, 5 in their three years of middle school so far. Again, no need to get crazy yet, but there should be more pieces for Coach D to work with if they all continue to play.

 

Also, as Bayshore says, there are good numbers at this point and a good mix of talent - several solid linemen in the rising 9th grade class and more skill in the rising 8th grade class. Numbers do mean a lot in Class A, proof being that Coach Donahue's two deepest playoff runs in his tenure (Dunson & Co. in 96 & Greer & Co. in 99), were the only 2 seasons in his tenure where he had more than 40 players on his roster.

 

Hey, I could talk middle school football all day, but none of these guys are taking Harlan to Papa John's this year. Can someone post the HHS schedule this year so we can analyze it?

I agree, but Harlan not being in a strong Jr. high conference anymore who does these kids play to get better. If my memory is correct Harlan used to play in the old CVC with teams like Bell, M'boro, HC, Knox, ect. Strength is in numbers, but not based on Jr. Performance only. We will have to check with HDE on this one, but I think the 96 seniors at Harlan went 1-9 or 0-10 in 8th grade football. I do look for Harlan to start another long run of playoff visits based on the new district and they have a solid coach. Only time will tell if Harlan can get its High School football numbers back up to 40 or 45 players.

I can't remember that far back, at least on junior high football.

 

You can usually get a pretty good idea on how good a team will be by looking at the junior high performance, but not always. Cawood had a group a few years ago that only won a couple of games, and they were very strong in junior high.

 

Perhaps getting out of the league was good for Harlan's confidence and was needed for the short-term, but I don't think avoiding the bigger schools helps you build a Class A power.

 

Cawood's middle school team fed into a 700-student high school, which was in 3A of a six-class system. That's not that big.

Get you facts straight HDE I know for a fact that Harlan needed games in the 5-6 grade level and called numerous times to the county schools middle school AD and could not get a game. They asked to play every team including New Harlan, so avoiding is not what happened last year. I wonder if you would answer the question that was asked about consolidating all of the county middle schools for football, you sort of side stepped that one. Ask the coaches and parents of Evarts and Cumberland if they felt they had a fair chance to compete against New Harlan for the last few years. Finally if your opinion is that you don't build a program by avoiding better competition then what say you of HCHS playing Class A Power Lynn Camp, BTW no disrespect to either program but it seems to me that as long as it is ok for one it shouldn't be bad for the other. The conference teams that we are in has Middlesboro Lynn Camp Williamsburg Pineville all the same size schools as the High school what a novel idea.

Edited May 30, 200818 yr by Ram
Rule 13

I'm not talking about grades 5-6, coach. The reason for getting out of the conference was to avoid playing Cawood and Bell. Is that incorrect? I understand the reasoning now, but it may not be ideal later.

 

If I'm saying Harlan should play Cawood in middle school most years, then it would certainly make sense for a team like Lynn Camp to play Cawood. How is that inconsistent. Cawood still plays schools bigger than them like Bell.

I can't find the other question.

 

I think Harlan County's current setup is good with teams at Evarts, Cumberland and Cawood. People want to split Cawood into two, but it's not as easy as it sounds. Just using what used to be Hall Junior High School for one team probably won't give you enough players for a team.

I'm not talking about grades 5-6, coach. The reason for getting out of the conference was to avoid playing Cawood and Bell. Is that incorrect? I understand the reasoning now, but it may not be ideal later.

 

If I'm saying Harlan should play Cawood in middle school most years, then it would certainly make sense for a team like Lynn Camp to play Cawood. How is that inconsistent. Cawood still plays schools bigger than them like Bell.

 

 

I think that you may have missed my point, if you are saying that New Harlan and Harlan Ind should play because in most years that would help Harlan by playing up. If that is the case should HCHS a 1400+ school be playing 350 or class A Lynn Camp in both instances they are trying to build their programs, so by your logic if it not good for one how is ok for the other? Now I do realize that we are discussing apples and oranges with a middle to high school situation but you really struck a nerve.

I can see Harlan stopping the New Harlan series temporarily to build confidence. It's going to be hard to be a Class A power (as someone asked) though and still avoid playing New Harlan. That was my one and only point. Do you disagree?

 

Harlan County had to play whoever they could find, which is why they are going to Grayson County, Va., for instance. Lynn Camp plays up every year against Whitley County and others, so the Harlan County matchup is not that unusual. If I could make Harlan County's schedule I'd probably play a couple of smaller schools mixed in with a majority of schools at the 4 or 5 or 6 A level.

 

There are inconsistencies in many schedules, I'm sure. Harlan is playing Perry Central and Clay County but won't play Harlan County, for example.