March 5, 200818 yr I am only addressing the last 5 years since Marvin took over a 2-14 team and started doing things differently; before that, they indeed were terrible. Many want to lump the whole 17 together; it has been very different the last 5 and much better. You didn't address the scouting success, because it cannot be argued; they have done much better since Marvin took over. Where Marvin messed up was '04- Ratliff, Williams, Miller, Johnson, Askew, Geathers; if 2 or 3 of those were players, in addition to Geathers, then we have a defense. Their other drafts have been very solid, so they are obviously scouting well. The last 2 years have obviously been a setback; in '06 at 8-5 they were set; I can't explain that ending; they should have made the playoffs; last year was an aberration due to injuries-OL, RB, LB is too much to overcome. "They suck!"??????????? Now you are losing credibility; the Dolphins suck, the Falcons suck; the Raiders suck; the Ravens suck; the Jets suck. 7-9 is mediocre at best and unacceptable. But many critics say the Bengals underachieved the last 2 seasons; if they underachieved, the talent has to be there; the critics can't have it both ways- critical of scouting and critical of the record. I haven't seen a playoff victory in the last 5. You state the Bengals have under achieved? Seems like the HC is usually to blame in those cases. 05 was an aberation. Got everybody's hopes up, kinda like when Coslet took over for Shula. How long does your savior Marvin Lewis get to get beyond mediocrity? I'd say not long now. Then we he goes you are still stuck with the Brown family. That says it all
March 5, 200818 yr Since this is an Odom thread I just finished reading this article: Bengals.com article on Odom I realize Bengals.com is the Bengals telling you how great the Bengals are but Odom sounds like a great fit for Cincy in every way possible. I love his attitude. With the addition of Odom I think Cincy is two DTs away from having a solid defense in 2008. Adding two good DT's would have made the defense solid without Odom, IMO...although I agree. But, you're sort of hitting on how I feel...Odom is only a good pickup, IMO, if the Bengals put some other pieces around him. They really needed to get Robertson...he's not an elite DT, but he's pretty solid. Hypothetically, had they finished the deal on Robertson, signed Odom, and then drafted Ellis...they go from a terrible front four, to one that has the potential to be good, if not great, and turn a terrible defense into a formidable one. I was pretty critical of the Odom signing yesterday, but the more I thought about it, I think I'll reserve judgement. If the Bengals add some more pieces, the Odom pickup could be a good one...however, I still think they overpaid.
March 5, 200818 yr 5wide, We are on the same page with the exception of I liked Odom from the get go. No matter what the Bengals company line is about Odom stopping the run and Odom bulking up the Bengals are counting on Odom to pressure the passer. If he and Gathers can pressure the passer and the Bengals can sign at least one solid DT (ideally two) I am optimistic the defense will be solid.
March 5, 200818 yr 5wide, We are on the same page with the exception of I liked Odom from the get go. No matter what the Bengals company line is about Odom stopping the run and Odom bulking up the Bengals are counting on Odom to pressure the passer. If he and Gathers can pressure the passer and the Bengals can sign at least one solid DT (ideally two) I am optimistic the defense will be solid. I hope you're right...I'm just highly skeptical of him because of the talent that surrounded him in Tennessee. But, I agree...if he can consistently get pressure, I'm not worried about how he stops the run...it will help the defense. They couldn't do either last year, so at least he'll take care of one of those. As a Titans fan first, from my perspective, I liked Odom, but he wasn't a guy I felt terrible about losing...especially for the money Cincy paid him. That's where I'm coming from...
March 5, 200818 yr After reading this, I do not think it is fair to still say the Bengals overpaid Odom http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3277837
March 5, 200818 yr Author I haven't seen a playoff victory in the last 5. You state the Bengals have under achieved? Seems like the HC is usually to blame in those cases. 05 was an aberation. Got everybody's hopes up, kinda like when Coslet took over for Shula. How long does your savior Marvin Lewis get to get beyond mediocrity? I'd say not long now. Then we he goes you are still stuck with the Brown family. That says it all "aberation" How??? They went to the playoffs after 2 seasons of steady improvements after 2 and 14!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Without Carson getting hurt, we'll never know what might have happened.... You can look at those seasons in a vacuum if you like, but that is not reality; how can you forget how bad they were in '02? I'd say the aberration was a botched snap on an extra point or a missed 30+ yard field goal by Shane Grahm in '06; those are aberrations. A team can't accidentally win 11 games; that's laughable in this day and age in the NFL. Last season it was injuries plain and simple. I agree that Marvin needs to right the ship this season. I think their training camp is too physical; they lose too many players before the season ever starts-that is a real problem they need to fix.
March 5, 200818 yr "aberation" How??? They went to the playoffs after 2 seasons of steady improvements after 2 and 14!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Without Carson getting hurt, we'll never know what might have happened.... You can look at those seasons in a vacuum if you like, but that is not reality; how can you forget how bad they were in '02? I'd say the aberration was a botched snap on an extra point or a missed 30+ yard field goal by Shane Grahm in '06; those are aberrations. A team can't accidentally win 11 games; that's laughable in this day and age in the NFL. Last season it was injuries plain and simple. I agree that Marvin needs to right the ship this season. I think their training camp is too physical; they lose too many players before the season ever starts-that is a real problem they need to fix. Aberation; 8-8 8-8 11-5 8-8 7-9 You tell me which season would be the aberation?
March 6, 200818 yr Author Aberation; 8-8 8-8 11-5 8-8 7-9 You tell me which season would be the aberation? Keep ignoring the fact that they were 2-14 when he took over all you want; the fact remains. If you are naive enough to think that turning around the Bengals in their state in '03 was like normal franchises, I can't help you. Look at the Raiders and how long they have been struggling, and they went to a Super Bowl a few years back. How long is it going to take the Dolphins to rebound? What about the Falcons? How about the Rams? They are all in much better shape than when Marvin took over.
March 6, 200818 yr Keep ignoring the fact that they were 2-14 when he took over all you want; the fact remains. If you are naive enough to think that turning around the Bengals in their state in '03 was like normal franchises, I can't help you. Look at the Raiders and how long they have been struggling, and they went to a Super Bowl a few years back. How long is it going to take the Dolphins to rebound? What about the Falcons? How about the Rams? They are all in much better shape than when Marvin took over. The Dolphins will be built into a good franchise again by Parcells, I believe. He knows what it takes to win. The Falcons are a different story. I'm not sure how long it will take them to rebuild, same with the Rams. The Bengals are better since Marvin took over, but the fact of the matter is he is averaging just over 8 wins a season, with no playoff wins. That's not very good for a 5 year span.
March 6, 200818 yr The Dolphins will be built into a good franchise again by Parcells, I believe. He knows what it takes to win. The Falcons are a different story. I'm not sure how long it will take them to rebuild, same with the Rams. The Bengals are better since Marvin took over, but the fact of the matter is he is averaging just over 8 wins a season, with no playoff wins. That's not very good for a 5 year span. It's good enough for some fans, and that's what the Brown family banks on.
March 6, 200818 yr Keep ignoring the fact that they were 2-14 when he took over all you want; the fact remains. If you are naive enough to think that turning around the Bengals in their state in '03 was like normal franchises, I can't help you. Look at the Raiders and how long they have been struggling, and they went to a Super Bowl a few years back. How long is it going to take the Dolphins to rebound? What about the Falcons? How about the Rams? They are all in much better shape than when Marvin took over. Naive? That's funny. Raiders, Falcons, and Rams? Are you serious? I seem to remember watching all 3 of those teams in the big game in the recent past. If you're going to compare the Bengals to anyone has to Arizona. Those 2 organizations seem to be similar. I have a lack of tolerance for ineptness, you obviously do not. I'm glad you're happy with .500 seasons.
March 6, 200818 yr Author The Dolphins will be built into a good franchise again by Parcells, I believe. He knows what it takes to win. The Falcons are a different story. I'm not sure how long it will take them to rebuild, same with the Rams. The Bengals are better since Marvin took over, but the fact of the matter is he is averaging just over 8 wins a season, with no playoff wins. That's not very good for a 5 year span. The last 2 years I agree with, but no one can fairly count the 1st 2 years after going 2-14; they were the worst franchise in SPORTS when he took over. If they don't get better this year and next, it will be time for him to go.
March 6, 200818 yr Author Naive? That's funny. Raiders, Falcons, and Rams? Are you serious? I seem to remember watching all 3 of those teams in the big game in the recent past. If you're going to compare the Bengals to anyone has to Arizona. Those 2 organizations seem to be similar. I have a lack of tolerance for ineptness, you obviously do not. I'm glad you're happy with .500 seasons. The Bengals have had 2 bad seasons after rising to the playoffs. The Raiders, Falcons, & Rams have had at least that many bad seasons in a row, and we'll see how long before they make it back to the playoffs.
March 6, 200818 yr The last 2 years I agree with, but no one can fairly count the 1st 2 years after going 2-14; they were the worst franchise in SPORTS when he took over. If they don't get better this year and next, it will be time for him to go. If they don't make the playoffs this year he has to go. No way should he be giving one more year after this if we fail to make the playoffs again.
March 6, 200818 yr If they don't make the playoffs this year he has to go. No way should he be giving one more year after this if we fail to make the playoffs again. If that's the case, they may as well send him packing now and get an early start on the future. With the competition in the AFC and all the holes Cincy needs to fill and questions they need to answer, I'd say they've got some pretty long odds to make the playoffs. Of course, with the right moves, things could change, but as of now, what they've got and what they might draft won't be enough, IMO. Look at the teams that are clearly ahead of Cincy right now... New England, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, San Diego, and Denver Then, I'd rate them below Buffalo, Tennessee, Houston, Baltimore and Kansas City. Although, those are much closer. The point is...they've got a lot of work to do and a lot of ground to make up to get back in playoff contention in the AFC.
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