Please. Clemens was McNamee's meal ticket back then. He had absolutely no motive whatsoever to start a set up of Clemens five years ago. I've been in law enforcement over 20 years and, hate to tell you this, but some of our best sources of information are people holding a grudge, jilted, or just plain ticked off at someone. It doesn't make their information any less credible, especially if it can be substantiated by third party sources. What exactly are Pettite and Knoblauch's reasons for lying? Maybe McNamee is "smug" (I didn't see it that way) because he knows he's got the truth on his side. Ever think of that? Sorry, but I think you have a bit of "Roger Idol", which is exactly what Clemens is counting on to get himself out of this jam and win over the court of public opinion.

 

And as for it being my opinion, yes it is. Kind of the point of a forum like this, right?

 

"Roger Idol" wow give you credit for coming up with that one. However I let you know, that I have never even been a fan of Roger Clemens. I admired his work ethic and thats it...As for Knoblauch did he say that he saw Roger get injected or anything about it? (I really dont know, I just asking.) Now for Pettite, I really don't think he is lying. I mean he admitted to the fact that McNamee told him that Clemens took HGH. (But wait that just comes back to McNamee saying something about Clemens, which this whole thing is about.) Yeah I did think about that for his reasons of being smug, and I also thought about how McNamee as talked about today, has already been proven to be a LIAR in the past. So did you ever think of that a PROVEN LIAR might just be lying again...

 

As I said before there is no way to believe in certainty about which story is true. This whole thing is just really pointless, and is crazy that CONGRESS is spending so much time on this.

Two words......Book Deal!

"Roger Idol" wow give you credit for coming up with that one. However I let you know, that I have never even been a fan of Roger Clemens. I admired his work ethic and thats it...As for Knoblauch did he say that he saw Roger get injected or anything about it? (I really dont know, I just asking.) Now for Pettite, I really don't think he is lying. I mean he admitted to the fact that McNamee told him that Clemens took HGH. (But wait that just comes back to McNamee saying something about Clemens, which this whole thing is about.) Yeah I did think about that for his reasons of being smug, and I also thought about how McNamee as talked about today, has already been proven to be a LIAR in the past. So did you ever think of that a PROVEN LIAR might just be lying again...

 

As I said before there is no way to believe in certainty about which story is true. This whole thing is just really pointless, and is crazy that CONGRESS is spending so much time on this.

 

 

Thanks. I thought the "Roger Idol" was kind of cute myself. :laugh:

 

I think you have your facts wrong. Not only did Pettite testify that McNamee told him that he had injected Clemens, but Pettite also said that Clemens himself directly told him that he had used HGH. That's pretty damaging testimonial evidence, in my opinion. Of course, Roger's clever explanation now is that Pettite "misremembered" their conversation and that he had been talking to Pettite about some story he heard about some old guy taking HGH. And Pettite said they actually had another conversation about it later down the road. Roger's explanation for that one is that he was talking about his wife taking HGH, not him. So he's basically painted Pettite to be either a complete idiot or a liar, take your pick. Not sure exactly what Knoblauch's tesimony was, but several of the Congressmen implied that it further corroborated information provided by McNamee.

I don't like him. He's a snake.....

 

in the grass!

The hearing today was a waste of time and money. All it did was paint the government into a corner they can't get out of.

 

Did they hurt Clemens and his credibility? Yes they did.

 

Did they hurt McNamee and his credibility? Yes they did.

 

You could tell which Congressman was for Clemons, who was for McNamee and which had no idea who to believe - doesn't that pretty much represent the entire country? There is a large part of the country who believes Clemens, large part who believes McNamee and large group who have no idea who to believe. Look at the posts in here - they fall into those groups as well.

 

The hearing was a waste because I don't think it was a time for them to bring in their personal opinions - the guy from Indiana had no right calling out McNamee and the chairman was out of line apologizing to McNamee for the criticisms towards his character. The purpose is to find out information which they really didn't do.

 

Now here is where they are in trouble - Mitchell said to NOT go after anyone. Let the past be in the past and fix the future. Great advice but Clemons filed the libel suit and Congress stepped in when they should have stayed out.

 

It's obvious one of them is lying - doesn't matter which one - and they have lied to Congress. The entire country knows one of them lied to Congress. Now do they let it go and not file perjury charges or do they try to find someone guilty? There were six FBI and IRS agents there today trying to determine what to do.

 

If they file perjury charges they will lose. Doesn't matter who they file against - Clemons or McNamee - they can't prove either one is lying. Remember to get a conviction it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt. So we are looking at around 2/3 of the jury saying guilty. It's not going to happen. The jury will be split down the middle just like we are in here and in the rest of the country. Clemons still has the celebrity card. Although he took a hit today there are still fans out there and some will be in the jury box.

 

If charges are filed the Justice Department will file against Clemons because McNamee is their boy. Clemons has the most to lose here and they can control McNamee.

 

If the Justice Department doesn't file charges now they lose face because they are letting a liar get away scotfree with no challenge. If the government wants to save face here they have to file charges or they look bad. It will create a situation where other people will find it easier to lie to Congress during hearings.

 

There is no winner here and baseball is the biggest loser. The past is the past and you cannot change it. Our records are tainted because the people in charge let it be. But this is also becoming a bigger deal than it should be. Fix the problem and move on.

 

Rodney Harrison was suspended several games for testing positive for steroids. Is he before Congress? Is Roger Goddall or Paul Tagliabue in front of Congress (for this and not Spygate - don't get me started on this one)?

The hearing today was a waste of time and money. All it did was paint the government into a corner they can't get out of.

 

Did they hurt Clemens and his credibility? Yes they did.

 

Did they hurt McNamee and his credibility? Yes they did.

 

You could tell which Congressman was for Clemons, who was for McNamee and which had no idea who to believe - doesn't that pretty much represent the entire country? There is a large part of the country who believes Clemens, large part who believes McNamee and large group who have no idea who to believe. Look at the posts in here - they fall into those groups as well.

 

The hearing was a waste because I don't think it was a time for them to bring in their personal opinions - the guy from Indiana had no right calling out McNamee and the chairman was out of line apologizing to McNamee for the criticisms towards his character. The purpose is to find out information which they really didn't do.

 

Now here is where they are in trouble - Mitchell said to NOT go after anyone. Let the past be in the past and fix the future. Great advice but Clemons filed the libel suit and Congress stepped in when they should have stayed out.

 

It's obvious one of them is lying - doesn't matter which one - and they have lied to Congress. The entire country knows one of them lied to Congress. Now do they let it go and not file perjury charges or do they try to find someone guilty? There were six FBI and IRS agents there today trying to determine what to do.

 

If they file perjury charges they will lose. Doesn't matter who they file against - Clemons or McNamee - they can't prove either one is lying. Remember to get a conviction it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt. So we are looking at around 2/3 of the jury saying guilty. It's not going to happen. The jury will be split down the middle just like we are in here and in the rest of the country. Clemons still has the celebrity card. Although he took a hit today there are still fans out there and some will be in the jury box.

 

If charges are filed the Justice Department will file against Clemons because McNamee is their boy. Clemons has the most to lose here and they can control McNamee.

 

If the Justice Department doesn't file charges now they lose face because they are letting a liar get away scotfree with no challenge. If the government wants to save face here they have to file charges or they look bad. It will create a situation where other people will find it easier to lie to Congress during hearings.

 

There is no winner here and baseball is the biggest loser. The past is the past and you cannot change it. Our records are tainted because the people in charge let it be. But this is also becoming a bigger deal than it should be. Fix the problem and move on.

 

Rodney Harrison was suspended several games for testing positive for steroids. Is he before Congress? Is Roger Goddall or Paul Tagliabue in front of Congress (for this and not Spygate - don't get me started on this one)?

 

Cant they get a lie detector test?

Cant they get a lie detector test?

 

I think most courts - especially federal courts - have done away with using lie detectors because people can manipulate them with practice. To fool a lie detector all you have to do is be in control of your heart rate and you can do this through breathing exercises.

 

It's sort of like video tape evidence. They don't just blindly let that in anymore unless it is authenticated through a third neutral party.

Please. Clemens was McNamee's meal ticket back then. He had absolutely no motive whatsoever to start a set up of Clemens five years ago. I've been in law enforcement over 20 years and, hate to tell you this, but some of our best sources of information are people holding a grudge, jilted, or just plain ticked off at someone. It doesn't make their information any less credible, especially if it can be substantiated by third party sources. What exactly are Pettite and Knoblauch's reasons for lying? Maybe McNamee is "smug" (I didn't see it that way) because he knows he's got the truth on his side. Ever think of that? Sorry, but I think you have a bit of "Roger Idol", which is exactly what Clemens is counting on to get himself out of this jam and win over the court of public opinion.

 

And as for it being my opinion, yes it is. Kind of the point of a forum like this, right?

 

Then why keep a syringe or gauze pads of any kind???

 

McNamee is a thug, a liar, a dirty cop, and an embarassment to the profession you say you belong. He is a drug dealer, not in his opinion, but a drug dealer none the less.

 

Someone said earlier to leave reason and morals out of the equation when trying to come to a decision on this allegation. I say why?? McNamee has been a liar and a thug all of his adult life, and Clemens pretty much a stand up guy until this episode. McNamee is the kind of guy that would cut his own mother's throat.

 

Then you have Pettite implicating Clemens in the HGH charge, but everyone should know that if Clemens were the "catch" in this case, and he is, that law enforcement officials will offer Pettite a deal (sort of like a get out of jail free card that has probably already been offered...here Andy, we'll guarantee no jailtime if you just give us something on Clemens, it doesn't have to be true but we'll act like it is because we really just want to see him fall). Heck, McNamee may have been offered the same deal by an overzealous FBI agent. What if you were a cop turned drug dealer looking at going to the same jails you sent other people, perhaps even wrongly. McNamee may be lying for survival purposes for all we know.

 

And yes, prosecuting attorneys and law enforcement do work this way in all parts of this great country.

McNamee is a straight-up LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!! No doubt about that after watching everything and reading everything!

 

I think Roger Clemens is fighting for something he obviously believes in. Why do that unless you believed in what you were saying. I just cannot see a guy go through all of this just to end up being a liar! When you believe in something as passionately as Roger does you are going to be upset when discussing the topic.

 

Everything he has ever done has been called into question and he admitted himself that his name will never recover from this, not matter what!

Seems to me Andy Petitte has changed his story about his personal use of HGH. He can talk all he wants about doing what is right and being a Christian and having to be judged in the end by our Lord and Savior. However, he still has changed his story and I really wander how truthful he is?

Seems to me Andy Petitte has changed his story about his personal use of HGH. He can talk all he wants about doing what is right and being a Christian and having to be judged in the end by our Lord and Savior. However, he still has changed his story and I really wander how truthful he is?

 

Really? He changed his story? What was the original story he supposedly told? His name was provided by McNamee to MLB investigators as someone to whom he had supplied HGH. When called on the carpet, he confessed to this usage and to conversations he had with Clemens about him (Clemens) using HGH. No change in story. Completely believeable. And his greatest advocate about what an honest, good person he is comes from Clemens himself. No loss of credibility there. Until some people get over this "Roger Idolitis" they seem to be inflicted with, they will never accept the very real possibility (likelihood) that Clemens did indeed use illegal substances.

McNamee is a straight-up LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!! No doubt about that after watching everything and reading everything!

 

I think Roger Clemens is fighting for something he obviously believes in. Why do that unless you believed in what you were saying. I just cannot see a guy go through all of this just to end up being a liar! When you believe in something as passionately as Roger does you are going to be upset when discussing the topic.

 

Everything he has ever done has been called into question and he admitted himself that his name will never recover from this, not matter what!

 

Sure. He believes he belongs in the Hall of Fame (which he still does, even with the steroid use) and is fighting like a dog to ensure that still happens.

 

If you watched and read the entire proceedings and don't have any concern at all about Clemens' testimony and credibility, then that tells me all I need to know about how objective you are able to view what took place.

My opinions, for what they're worth...

 

1. I don't like McNamee and Roger Clemens has been one my favorites his whole career...he's the biggest reason I'm a Sox fan today (that and the fact that NESN was on my satellite in the mid to late 80's and I watched it all the time).

 

2. I believe both guys are lying...but, I think Roger Clemens did use HGH. I have no idea how much...for some reason, I tend to believe he may not have used it extensively, but I could be wrong. However, the point is not how much, but whether he did use it and I think he did. I really don't know what McNamee is telling the truth about and it's not that relevant to me in this regard...Pettite's testimony is. I think Pettite's statements (and his wife) were the most damaging to Clemens. Nobody has been able to create any questions about Pettite's character. In fact, all we hear about him is that he's a stand up guy...until someone can prove otherwise, I believe what he says. Maybe he did "misunderstand" what Clemens said, but at this point, I don't believe he did.

 

3. I seriously doubt there is enough evidence to "prove" that Clemens used HGH. If they were to take him to court, I don't think they could prove it beyond reasonable doubt. His defense would be able to create enough doubt about McNamee, IMO, that a jury would probably give Roger the benefit of the doubt...

 

4. ...therefore, this was all a big waste of time, as someone stated earlier.

 

 

Here's a perfect example of why our country is falling apart...the way our congress and senate have become obsessed with baseball and football, while neglecting far more weightier issues. They always like to play that holier than thou "this is for the children" card. I say, if they're really concerned about the children, why don't they get together and work on issues like our economy, healthcare, national debt, border control, etc...I don't care if they claim they are working on them. They aren't getting anything accomplished, so the time they're wasting with these ridiculous inquiries into whether Roger Clemens had a needle in his buttocks or whether the Patriots cheated could be better served on the more important issues.

Then why keep a syringe or gauze pads of any kind???

 

McNamee is a thug, a liar, a dirty cop, and an embarassment to the profession you say you belong. He is a drug dealer, not in his opinion, but a drug dealer none the less.

 

Someone said earlier to leave reason and morals out of the equation when trying to come to a decision on this allegation. I say why?? McNamee has been a liar and a thug all of his adult life, and Clemens pretty much a stand up guy until this episode. McNamee is the kind of guy that would cut his own mother's throat.

 

Then you have Pettite implicating Clemens in the HGH charge, but everyone should know that if Clemens were the "catch" in this case, and he is, that law enforcement officials will offer Pettite a deal (sort of like a get out of jail free card that has probably already been offered...here Andy, we'll guarantee no jailtime if you just give us something on Clemens, it doesn't have to be true but we'll act like it is because we really just want to see him fall). Heck, McNamee may have been offered the same deal by an overzealous FBI agent. What if you were a cop turned drug dealer looking at going to the same jails you sent other people, perhaps even wrongly. McNamee may be lying for survival purposes for all we know.

 

And yes, prosecuting attorneys and law enforcement do work this way in all parts of this great country.

 

Too funny. You must know McNamee fairly well, I would assume, to state that he has been a "liar and thug his entire adult life" and would "cut his own mother's throat". Please give us your unique insight into that. And since he didn't break any laws that I'm aware of while he was a police officer, I wouldn't say he has disgraced my profession in the slightest. (Yes, I assure you that I belong to this extremely honorable profession). He has disgraced the profession of athletic trainers moreso than anything else.

 

Pettite was not offered any type of "deal" because he was never under or even being considered for criminal charges. Please try to get yourself better informed before making such silly statements.

 

McNamee was asked to provide information on individuals to whom he provided HGH/steroids and did so. To date, everyone he implicated - except Clemens - acknowledged he was telling the truth. His motive for not lying is that if he did lie to federal investigators he would be charged with perjury, obstructing an investigation, and a host of other charges. Telling the truth was by far and away his best option in dealing with the charges against him.

 

And, of course, I'm certain you again have some unique and enlightening insight into all the misdeeds of prosecuting attorneys and law enforcement officials across the country. Please fill us in. But try to become informed first, as it is a very common and accepted practice to obtain useful information from defendents in exchange for a reduction in their charge/sentence.

Personally, I think we had a congressional hearing that much resembled a talk show "he said; he said" kinda stuff is rediculous. They are both lying at some point I think that is obvious...