5.09 (f): If a fair ball touches an umpire working in the infield after it has bounded past, or over, the pitcher, it is a dead ball. If a batted ball is deflected by a fielder in fair territory and hits a runner or an umpire while still in flight and then caught by an infielder, it shall not (my emphasis) be a catch, but the ball shall remain in play.

 

 

6:09: The batter becomes a runner (my emphasis) when -

 

© A fair ball, after having passed a fielder other than the pitcher, or after having been touched by a fielder, including the pitcher, shall touch an umpire or runner on fair territory.

 

 

I have a Major League Rules Case Book and it says the following regarding this situation:

 

"When considering a fair batted ball striking a runner or umpire before or after being touched by an infielder, the pitcher is included. However, when considering a fair batted ball striking a runner or umpire before or after passing by an infielder without being touched by him, the pitcher is excluded.

 

The factor determing whether the ball becomes dead or remains alive when striking a runner or an umpire are the same for each (runner and umpire). The penalties following a dead ball rulling, however, are different when the ball strikes a runner as compared to when the ball strikes an umpire."

 

 

Thanks. Good info.

 

I assume the batter is awarded with a single in 5.09 and 6.09.

Thanks. Good info.

 

I assume the batter is awarded with a single in 5.09 and 6.09.

 

No, he's not "awarded" anything. Keep in mind that it is a live ball and if the fielder makes a throw to 1B that beats the batter-runner, he is out.

 

In our situation, there was a runner on 1B who was stealing on pitch when this occurred. The batted ball deflects off our pitcher's glove, then off umpire's shoulder, straight to our 2Bman, who fired to first - thinking he was doubling up the returning 1B runner. The umpire called "out" but was referring to the batter, not the returning base runner. The returning base runner - and everyone else in the park, including myself - thought umpire was calling him out and immediately jogged off field towards his third base dugout. He actually was not out because the play to first that retired the batter removed the force on the runner and he needed to be tagged by the 1Bman before getting back to 1B. However, his leaving the field amounted to abandoing the base path and he automatically became out. Talk about a once-in-lifetime play. Pretty cool, though.

No, he's not "awarded" anything. Keep in mind that it is a live ball and if the fielder makes a throw to 1B that beats the batter-runner, he is out.

 

I.

 

 

Allow me re-phrase. On the play where it hits the ump and becomes "dead" then the batter is awarded a single, correct?

Allow me re-phrase. On the play where it hits the ump and becomes "dead" then the batter is awarded a single, correct?

 

Correct. :thumb: And existing runners only advance if forced.

Well, until there some actual games being played that can be discussed, I'll just keep making up some odd play scenarioes, I guess:

 

1) Deep fly ball. OF goes back to fence to make play, but misses ball. Ball hits off wall, then hits off OFer's head and richocets over fence. Call?

 

2) Runner on 2B. Batter hits hard line drive off pitcher's leg, which richocets straight back to catcher without hitting ground. Catcher immediately fires to 2B and bag is tug. Runner had taken off and is standing on 3B. Batter-runner is standing at 1B. Call?

 

3) Runner on first, stealing on the pitch. The batter hits a ground ball to SS who throws to second, but runner beat throws and is safe at 2B. The second baseman then tries to throw out the batter-runner at 1B, but throws ball past 1Bman into dugout. Ruling?

Well, until there some actual games being played that can be discussed, I'll just keep making up some odd play scenarioes, I guess:

 

1) Deep fly ball. OF goes back to fence to make play, but misses ball. Ball hits off wall, then hits off OFer's head and richocets over fence. Call?

HR

 

2) Runner on 2B. Batter hits hard line drive off pitcher's leg, which richocets straight back to catcher without hitting ground. Catcher immediately fires to 2B and bag is tug. Runner had taken off and is standing on 3B. Batter-runner is standing at 1B. Call?

DP, no runners and someone let me know, if this ever happens....

 

3) Runner on first, stealing on the pitch. The batter hits a ground ball to SS who throws to second, but runner beat throws and is safe at 2B. The second baseman then tries to throw out the batter-runner at 1B, but throws ball past 1Bman into dugout. Ruling?

1 base and runners advance to 3rd and 2B. If the 2nd throw and had came from OF, then 2 bases would be awarded.

HR

 

DP, no runners and someone let me know, if this ever happens....

 

1 base and runners advance to 3rd and 2B. If the 2nd throw and had came from OF, then 2 bases would be awarded.

 

#1) Incorrect.

 

#2) Correct. I've seen a ball richocet off another player and be caught, but not a runner doubled up.

 

#3) Incorrect.

Well, until there some actual games being played that can be discussed, I'll just keep making up some odd play scenarioes, I guess:

 

1) Deep fly ball. OF goes back to fence to make play, but misses ball. Ball hits off wall, then hits off OFer's head and richocets over fence. Call?

 

Ground Rule Double

 

2) Runner on 2B. Batter hits hard line drive off pitcher's leg, which richocets straight back to catcher without hitting ground. Catcher immediately fires to 2B and bag is tug. Runner had taken off and is standing on 3B. Batter-runner is standing at 1B. Call?

 

DP - A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder before it touches the ground.

 

 

 

3) Runner on first, stealing on the pitch. The batter hits a ground ball to SS who throws to second, but runner beat throws and is safe at 2B. The second baseman then tries to throw out the batter-runner at 1B, but throws ball past 1Bman into dugout. Ruling?

 

runners at 2nd and 3rd

CCHS DAD:

 

#1) Correct.

#2) Incorrect.

#3) Incorrect.

#1) Incorrect.

 

#2) Correct. I've seen a ball richocet off another player and be caught, but not a runner doubled up.

 

#3) Incorrect.

So I presume....

 

1) Ground-rule 2B

 

3) 2 Bases? Isn't an overthrow from the Infield, 1 base and if the 2nd occurence (relay from OF) 2 bases?

So I presume....

 

1) Ground-rule 2B

 

3) 2 Bases? Isn't an overthrow from the Infield, 1 base and if the 2nd occurence (relay from OF) 2 bases?

 

1. key is that the ball hit the fence (wall) then the player

 

3. That play is not any different that if an out was made at second and overthrow at first. base attempting plus one still time of pitch?

So I presume....

 

1) Ground-rule 2B

 

3) 2 Bases? Isn't an overthrow from the Infield, 1 base and if the 2nd occurence (relay from OF) 2 bases?

 

#1) Correct. Ground rule double.

 

#3) On a second throw (doesn't matter if comes from OF), the award is two bases at the time of the throw. Since R2 had already acquired 2B safely, he gets home. Batter-runner is also given two bases, putting him on 2B. Actually, if the 2Bman had stupidly released ball after the BR acquired 1B, he would be placed on 3B.

That play is not any different that if an out was made at second and overthrow at first. See it all the time.

No, I'm referring to a ball being played by an Outfielder and thrown back into an Infielder, who in turn throws it out of play. I don't have my NFHS Rule book with me, but my recollection on the penalty, is "2nd occurrence, since OF and IF were involved and 2 bases".

 

If only an Infielder, than 1 base. Obviously I'm wrong though but I've seen this called, several times in HS and once, a runner from 1st scored because an overthrow/relay from OF to SS.

No, I'm referring to a ball being played by an Outfielder and thrown back into an Infielder, who in turn throws it out of play. I don't have my NFHS Rule book with me, but my recollection on the penalty, is "2nd occurrence, since OF and IF were involved and 2 bases".

 

If only an Infielder, than 1 base. Obviously I'm wrong though but I've seen this called, several times in HS and once, a runner from 1st scored because an overthrow/relay from OF to SS.

 

Maybe a difference in NFHS vs. MLB rules? I don't know. I'm quoting MLB rules. I probably should have said that up front. I don't have my books in front of me right now, but will double-check the ruling tonight and cite actual rule. But I'm about 99% certain that if overthrow occurs on the 2nd throw, it is a 2-base award at the time of the throw (which differs from overthrow on first throw, which is a 2-base award based on player's position at start of the play).

Maybe a difference in NFHS vs. MLB rules? I don't know. I'm quoting MLB rules. I probably should have said that up front. I don't have my books in front of me right now, but will double-check the ruling tonight and cite actual rule. But I'm about 99% certain that if overthrow occurs on the 2nd throw, it is a 2-base award at the time of the throw (which differs from overthrow on first throw, which is a 2-base award at start of the play).

I was thinking from NFHS and you may be right. I've seen the OF/IF several times, and 2 bases, were awarded. Not sure, I've seen a 2nd throw from the IF enter into dead ball area, in a HS game. It might be, I have 2nd occurrence and 2nd throw confused also.

 

Good questions and to clarify, is the 2B because the ball didn't leave the field "in-flight"?