A statistical quandary

[Jim Schue]

I've seen some interesting things over the years on stat sheets at HS ball games. All the usuals: inflated rebound/assist/blocked shot totals for the team doing the stat-keeping, lackadaisical care with the opposing team's stats, etc.

 

But at least twice that I've seen this year (and probably several other times as well that I haven't seen) I have looked at the stat sheet and it lists the statkeeper's team as tallying more steals than turnovers forced. How, if at all, is this possible? Isn't a steal for one team, by its very nature, a turnover for the other?

[JBCousins]

Yep...that WOULD be impossible.

[OYPreps]

I've seen some interesting things over the years on stat sheets at HS ball games. All the usuals: inflated rebound/assist/blocked shot totals for the team doing the stat-keeping, lackadaisical care with the opposing team's stats, etc.

 

But at least twice that I've seen this year (and probably several other times as well that I haven't seen) I have looked at the stat sheet and it lists the statkeeper's team as tallying more steals than turnovers forced. How, if at all, is this possible? Isn't a steal for one team, by its very nature, a turnover for the other?

 

It happens at nearly every school. Pumping stat lines to help a kid accolades. About the only thing that is appropriately reported is points scored and for the most part FG% and 3pt%.

[Weakside]

You could have more turnovers than your opponent has steals however i'm not sure it's possible to have more steals than your opponent has turnovers.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Not possible.

 

I find that turnovers were always the hardest to get HS students statisticians to understand. Beyond the throwing the ball out of bounds, a player charges or commits an offensive foul and that is a turnover. Steals are obviously a turnover along with any violation.

 

Also, as a coach who got the turnover and who was responsible for the turnover I was interested in.

 

For example, Player A is supposed to cut to the corner and begins that way but stops and does not run the offense by cutting to where they are supposed to be. Player B makes the pass and no one is there. Player A, to me, has more responsibility for that turnover because they didn't run the offense like they were supposed to.

 

Also, tall post player that is not mobile, running the floor. Getting low to catch a bounce pass while running full speed is not their strength. Exact pass that the point guard throws. Post player walks while trying to corral the pass. More responsibility to point guard whose job it is getting the ball to their teammates where their teammates can have success.

[cshs81]

I'd argue that assists are the most inaccurate category as it is subjective.

[greendevil]

IMO, it is very possible to have more T/O' s than steals and be very accurate. I see "unforced" turnovers on a regular basis. Am I mis-reading the post?

[cshs81]

IMO, it is very possible to have more T/O' s than steals and be very accurate. I see "unforced" turnovers on a regular basis. Am I mis-reading the post?

 

Yes, you're misunderstanding Jim's post. He is saying just the opposite of what you posted in your first sentence. If you have X number of steals, you have AT LEAST X number of forced TOs.

[Blue Blazer]

Let the stats guy/girl keep unofficial bench stats and a coach stat from the game tape. Good help is hard to find. School records broken should be accompanied by video evidence to avoid inconsistancies with rule interpretation. Assists, turnovers, and shots at the buzzer that don't go in are common foul-ups.

[ColonelCrazy]

I'd argue that assists are the most inaccurate category as it is subjective.

 

Absolutely.

 

Remember when David McFarland was averaging like 12 assists & 10 points a game while his team was averaging like 42 points. Now that's impressive.

 

 

(#'s are a little off, but you get the point.)

[letabrotherspeak]

I'd argue that assists are the most inaccurate category as it is subjective.

 

I'd argue that baseball statisitics are the most fraudulant of all high school stats....particularly batting average and RBI.

But I digress...

Assists in high school is one major area of embellishment.

[cshs81]

I'd argue that baseball statisitics are the most fraudulant of all high school stats....particularly batting average and RBI.

But I digress...

Assists in high school is one major area of embellishment.

 

Are you trying to tell me that the stat girl gave an RBI to a kid who hit into a DP?

[letabrotherspeak]

Let the stats guy/girl keep unofficial bench stats and a coach stat from the game tape. Good help is hard to find. School records broken should be accompanied by video evidence to avoid inconsistancies with rule interpretation. Assists, turnovers, and shots at the buzzer that don't go in are common foul-ups.

 

Good points...

I believe one year Boone County's coaches went back and watched tape and found a few extra yards, hence giving one of their RB the rushing title or some other milestone.....might have been the Alford kid.

[Bear65]

The biggest joke I see in High school stats is tackling in football. Our local paper publishes local stats each week. This accounts for about 10 schools stats. It never ceases to amaze me how many players that have over 100 tackles in a year. One local team had 6 out of the top 10 tacklers in our area. Their defense only gave up 38 pts per game! You can only have two in on a tackle, thus it is an assisted tackle, or you have a solo tackle. That is it!

I do our stats and compare them weekly to the newspaper. We will have a player for 3 solo's and 4 assists. Their coach will report 12 solo's and 7 assists! Stats are crazy for some people. Two years ago a local school had a player with over 190 tackles in 11 games. Wow!:lol:

[Deuce41]

I have seen a school report rushing stats where they did not count rushes for a loss.....thus inflating the total, If a kid has 100 yards rushig on 10 positive attempts and add three carries for a loss of 10 you have a total of 13 attempts and 90 yards, not with this school they would have 13 carries for 100 yards or sometimes 10 carries for 100 yards, it was laughable.