That is not what the scripture quoted on this board says. "You cannot come to the father except by me."

 

I will return to my old favorite -

 

Matthew 25 - those who treat the least of these well will be sheep and enter heaven - those who do not will be goats and will not enter heaven.

 

Why does this scripture not mention anything about what one believes?

 

I also have yet to figure out why FRONTROWFAN never responds to my posts.

 

Ask and ye shall recieve....I know I have heard that somewhere. :confused:

 

What exactly are you wishing for in a reply?

I think this is more appropriate here.

 

 

 

This is rich. Gravity has been proven for hundreds of years, but scientists are continuing to try and figure it out? How could it possibly be “proven” if many of its properties and effects are not known or understood? I wish someone would have gotten to Einstein and Hawking before they wasted so much time with gravity, since it has been solved for hundreds of years.

 

This is richer. How is what you just said any different from what I posted? I said that the properties of gravity are still being tested. The areas being studied now are far more complex than "Does Gravity exist?" I am fairly sure that the scientific community feels pretty confident that gravity exists.

Ezekiel 28:12-15 (quoted below) is a description by God through the prophet Ezekiel describing Lucifer/Satan. It is clear from this description that Satan was not created to be evil. He became evil through his own pride and rebellion.

 

"'You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you."

 

It appears that God grants even His angels the power of a free will.

 

Therefore, it is difficult for me to accept that God is in the business of creating evil just so he can turn around and punish evil.

 

God did the world a favor by sending us His very own Son to provide a payment for and a way out of our evil deeds and choices.

 

John 3:16-21 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

 

 

So God done us a favor by granting us free will? The question still lingers, and I don't think youre going to be able to answer it.

 

Why did he bother creating Satan? As An All Knowing God he should have known that the Devil was going to have wickedness found in him. This means one of two things. 1) God is not all knowing. 2) God is falliable.

So God done us a favor by granting us free will? The question still lingers, and I don't think youre going to be able to answer it.

 

Why did he bother creating Satan? As An All Knowing God he should have known that the Devil was going to have wickedness found in him. This means one of two things. 1) God is not all knowing. 2) God is falliable.

Lucifer was the "morning star", perhaps the greatest of the archangels. Sometime after the creation of earth (I don't agree with the 144 hour creation) Lucifer convinced a third of the angelic host to join him in revolt against Yahweh. At that time, he received the title Satan or Adversary. He was also named Devil or Slanderer. God expelled Satan and his host from heaven but allowed them to remain upon and rule earth. Even now, Satan believes that he and his host can overthrow Jehovah.

 

I don't pretend to understand why God does what he does or why he allows things to happen. I view God's omniescence like a decision tree with one beginning but an infiinite number of branches that all come down to one ending. The road may take many twists and turns, and God knows all the possibilities. But all paths end up at the same place.

 

J.R.R. Tolkien wrote his own version of the creation and the rise and fall of Satan in the book The Silmarillian. Great read.

J.R.R. Tolkien wrote his own version of the creation and the rise and fall of Satan in the book The Silmarillian. Great read.

 

Melkor (Morgoth) and the fallen Ainur, including fan favorite Sauron. :banana:

Ask and ye shall recieve....I know I have heard that somewhere. :confused:

 

What exactly are you wishing for in a reply?

 

i have several times offered a differing "Christian" perspective on God, Hell (or lack thereof) from several of the other posters with no refutation from you.

 

My theology and emerging Christianity is waaay different from Iam4thehounds, and HHSdad, and LBBC, even baffling to some of them.

 

I beleive that the Bible is written by men (as you do) who had a relationship/event something with the Creator. The Bible is their story of that event/relationship. I believe the new testament is the revelation of the nature of God through the HUMAN life of Jesus Christ.

 

I believe that God is All Loving and consistently calling you (the general 'you') into a right relationship with God. I believe that God will always be calling you into that right relationship and that when you die, your next "existence" will be a reflection of how close you have chosen to be to God. If God is love, hope, peace, and joy and you have chosen to be distant from God, then your existence will be one absent of love, hope, peace, and joy - the metaphorical Hell. HOWEVER, even in that existence God will still be the waiting Father (from the prodigal son) calling you into a right relationship so that one day (which really means nothing in the eternal NOW) you will return to Him.

 

As for God being Omniscient - I believe God knows God's ultimate plan for creation and knows that one day it will be restored to a right relationship with God - as far as all of the miniscule things that happen, I don't think God fools with it. God's injection into human life usually occurs through "enlightened" (Siddhartha Guatma??) people, and when bad things occur in this world (outside of natural events like hurricanes) they are usually the result of some good people standing by and letting it happen.

i have several times offered a differing "Christian" perspective on God, Hell (or lack thereof) from several of the other posters with no refutation from you.

The following 14 quotes specifically naming Hell as a real place are from the New Testament. 12 of them are direct quotes from Jesus Himself:

 

Mt 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Mt 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Mt 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mt 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Mt 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

Mt 23:33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Mr 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Mr 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.

Mr 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

Lu 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Lu 16:23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Jas 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

 

My theology and emerging Christianity is waaay different from Iam4thehounds, and HHSdad, and LBBC, even baffling to some of them.

You can add my name to these Ace. Your “emerging” a la carte, buffet style “theology” baffles me too. You can question Christianity, you can question the direct teachings of Jesus… but to totally distort them to fit your comfort level and then label it Christianity is erroneous at best.

 

It may be what you believe... and you are fully entitled to believe whatever you choose. That doesn't make it Christianity.

I believe that God is All Loving and consistently calling you (the general 'you') into a right relationship with God. I believe that God will always be calling you into that right relationship and that when you die, your next "existence" will be a reflection of how close you have chosen to be to God. If God is love, hope, peace, and joy and you have chosen to be distant from God, then your existence will be one absent of love, hope, peace, and joy - the metaphorical Hell. HOWEVER, even in that existence God will still be the waiting Father (from the prodigal son) calling you into a right relationship so that one day (which really means nothing in the eternal NOW) you will return to Him.

I have a difficult time resolving your “theology” with the Bible. The following are just a few that lead me to believe you are treading on dangerous ground.

 

Matthew 5:17-20 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

 

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

Galatians 1:6-9 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

 

Matthew 18:6 / Mark 9:42 / Luke 17:2 - But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

So basically, you're saying you lucked out? You were fortunate enough to be born into a country where belief in the Christian God is common? Humans that were born in China, Burma, Indonesia, and Iran just had poor luck? Humans born into athiestic countries where belief in the Christian God would be deemed illegal just was not born with the same good luck you were?

 

A God that would opperate under such rules, if it existed as described, would not deserve to be worshiped.

 

Obviously, no one has ever pointed out Romans 2 to you.

 

There is thought that it addresses your concern.

 

There is thought that Romans 2 addresses what you are asking.

 

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

I think that TFRFan asks a lot of the same questions we Christians ask ourselves. The one thing I don't think I've read anyone say is that we are supposed to question God. We are called not to have blind faith, but to seek the answers through God's Word. I believe in the priesthood of the believer - which means that God can speak to each individual in different ways. People can read the same scripture and come away with different opinions and imo - both be correct.

 

I would add that those different things can come as a result of where they are in their life. If a person is in a valley of their life, God will speak to them differently through a particular Scripture than he might to someone that is in a peak of his life.

i have several times offered a differing "Christian" perspective on God, Hell (or lack thereof) from several of the other posters with no refutation from you.

 

My theology and emerging Christianity is waaay different from Iam4thehounds, and HHSdad, and LBBC, even baffling to some of them.

 

I beleive that the Bible is written by men (as you do) who had a relationship/event something with the Creator. The Bible is their story of that event/relationship. I believe the new testament is the revelation of the nature of God through the HUMAN life of Jesus Christ.

 

I believe that God is All Loving and consistently calling you (the general 'you') into a right relationship with God. I believe that God will always be calling you into that right relationship and that when you die, your next "existence" will be a reflection of how close you have chosen to be to God. If God is love, hope, peace, and joy and you have chosen to be distant from God, then your existence will be one absent of love, hope, peace, and joy - the metaphorical Hell. HOWEVER, even in that existence God will still be the waiting Father (from the prodigal son) calling you into a right relationship so that one day (which really means nothing in the eternal NOW) you will return to Him.

 

As for God being Omniscient - I believe God knows God's ultimate plan for creation and knows that one day it will be restored to a right relationship with God - as far as all of the miniscule things that happen, I don't think God fools with it. God's injection into human life usually occurs through "enlightened" (Siddhartha Guatma??) people, and when bad things occur in this world (outside of natural events like hurricanes) they are usually the result of some good people standing by and letting it happen.

 

 

I think youre beliefs lean more toward a Christian based deism - which is what most of our founding fathers believed. If I were to believe in a creator - my idea of him would be very similiar to yours.

 

At the moment though, I am not sold that you can follow your ideas of God and still follow the Bible's idea of him cocurrently. I will remain open to hearing your side of things.

The following 14 quotes specifically naming Hell as a real place are from the New Testament. 12 of them are direct quotes from Jesus Himself:

 

Mt 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Mt 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Mt 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mt 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Mt 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

Mt 23:33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Mr 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Mr 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.

Mr 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

Lu 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Lu 16:23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Jas 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

 

You can add my name to these Ace. Your “emerging” a la carte, buffet style “theology” baffles me too. You can question Christianity, you can question the direct teachings of Jesus… but to totally distort them to fit your comfort level and then label it Christianity is erroneous at best.

 

It may be what you believe... and you are fully entitled to believe whatever you choose. That doesn't make it Christianity.

I have a difficult time resolving your “theology” with the Bible. The following are just a few that lead me to believe you are treading on dangerous ground.

 

Matthew 5:17-20 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

 

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

Galatians 1:6-9 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

 

Matthew 18:6 / Mark 9:42 / Luke 17:2 - But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

 

What does "to fulfill the law" mean? It is easy to quote it and easy to say it, but what does it mean? The law was meant to point US toward God it was not a list of gotcha's. The law - specifically the 10 Commandments - were about developing right relationship with God, with your parents, and with your neighbors. It was not about following a set of rules to make you righteous.

 

"Which of these Lord is the greatest of the commandments", the CHURCH/RELIGIOUS leaders asked Jesus in an attempt to trip him up. He replied "love the Lord your God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself"

 

When Jesus says he has come to fulfill the law he means, I have come to show you what it is like to love the Lord and Your neighbor.

 

He broke many of the laws himself - i.e breaking the tops of the grain on the Sabbath - because it was the RIGHTeous thing to do and it is all about a right relationship, not about rules and doctrine and dogma.

 

Pay attention to what has been written on this board to decide who are drawing someone closer to God and who are pushing people away.

What does "to fulfill the law" mean? It is easy to quote it and easy to say it, but what does it mean? The law was meant to point US toward God it was not a list of gotcha's. The law - specifically the 10 Commandments - were about developing right relationship with God, with your parents, and with your neighbors. It was not about following a set of rules to make you righteous.

 

"Which of these Lord is the greatest of the commandments", the CHURCH/RELIGIOUS leaders asked Jesus in an attempt to trip him up. He replied "love the Lord your God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself"

 

When Jesus says he has come to fulfill the law he means, I have come to show you what it is like to love the Lord and Your neighbor.

 

He broke many of the laws himself - i.e breaking the tops of the grain on the Sabbath - because it was the RIGHTeous thing to do and it is all about a right relationship, not about rules and doctrine and dogma.

 

Pay attention to what has been written on this board to decide who are drawing someone closer to God and who are pushing people away.

 

The last line of this post is in poor taste, but I cannot edit and remove it, I apparently have waited too long. It is arrogant and nothing but self serving. I was a little defensive and had no need to be, please forgive me, I am sorry.

I think youre beliefs lean more toward a Christian based deism - which is what most of our founding fathers believed. If I were to believe in a creator - my idea of him would be very similiar to yours.

 

At the moment though, I am not sold that you can follow your ideas of God and still follow the Bible's idea of him cocurrently. I will remain open to hearing your side of things.

 

I believe God interacts with humans through humans. I will paraphrase a quote by William Sloane Coffin from his book Credo:

 

When terrible horrible events happen on earth, genocide, homelessness, suffering, poverty, oppression - there are a great many people, including Christians who say - God how could you let this happen - and God replies, NO, HOW COULD YOU LET THIS HAPPEN.

I believe God interacts with humans through humans. I will paraphrase a quote by William Sloane Coffin from his book Credo:

 

When terrible horrible events happen on earth, genocide, homelessness, suffering, poverty, oppression - there are a great many people, including Christians who say - God how could you let this happen - and God replies, NO, HOW COULD YOU LET THIS HAPPEN.

 

So why does our All Loving and All Knowing God allow genocide, homelessness, suffering, poverty, and oppression to happen?

 

Is his stubborness to never mess with free will worth all that?

The following 14 quotes specifically naming Hell as a real place are from the New Testament. 12 of them are direct quotes from Jesus Himself:

 

Mt 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Mt 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Mt 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mt 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Mt 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

Mt 23:33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Mr 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Mr 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.

Mr 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

Lu 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Lu 16:23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

Jas 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

 

You can add my name to these Ace. Your “emerging” a la carte, buffet style “theology” baffles me too. You can question Christianity, you can question the direct teachings of Jesus… but to totally distort them to fit your comfort level and then label it Christianity is erroneous at best.

 

It may be what you believe... and you are fully entitled to believe whatever you choose. That doesn't make it Christianity.

I have a difficult time resolving your “theology” with the Bible. The following are just a few that lead me to believe you are treading on dangerous ground.

 

Matthew 5:17-20 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

 

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

Galatians 1:6-9 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

 

Matthew 18:6 / Mark 9:42 / Luke 17:2 - But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

 

 

#1 - MY THEOLOGY IS THIS - God loves me, He sent his Son to provide me with a path for Salvation - (which is not an event, but again a relationship with God). There is nothing more or less that I need to be a Christian.

 

However, you are suggesting that I must also believe in a literal Hell and a literal interpretation of scripture for me or anyone else to be saved. That, my friend is not scriptural. The Roman Road - Accept Jesus into my heart, believe that He died on the cross for me, Confess my sins. Love God and Love my neighbor. You should not add or take away from this!

 

I have already responded to what it means to fulfill the law. You also must know that Jesus did not believe the pharisees and saducess to be righteous. They might be in the juridical sense, but not in a spiritual sense.

 

For many Judgment means cleansing. For our western mind, it usually means retribution or vengence, but you don't know that is what the author of Hebrews meant.

 

Galations - Paul is talking about himself, not Jesus.

 

As for HELL - there is NO MENTION OF HELL FOR SINNERS in the Old Testament. This notion only came into fashion during the interbiblical period 9between the prophets and the birth of Jesus) - none of the authors of the Old Testament talk about it. They do talk about judgment but it is more of an earthly nature, because the messiah they envisioned was a political/miliatary one (how could those great writers of the Bible be so mistaken)

 

As for the New Testament, most of the words translated Hell are either Gehana (sp) which again was a trash dump outside of Jerusalem that was always on fire and a horrible place to be or Sheole (sp) the shadowy place of the dead - which was not a hellfire and brimstone place. So when "Jesus" says that someone will end up in Hell he could very well mean an awful place separated from everyone else, especially God.

 

Most Jews and especially those of the Old Testamentwere annilihationist (sp - i dont' have time to look these words up tonight), but they believed/believe that this life is it.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHEN JESUS TALKED ABOUT HELL HE WAS NEARLY ALWAYS TALKING TO THE RELIGIOUS ESTABLISHMENT. HE DID NOT TALK ABOUT HELL TO SINNERS AND OUTCASTS. DO YOU NOT FIND THAT ODD?

 

Matthew 28 - Can destroy your body and soul in hell - does this sound like eternal punshment of annilihation? Sounds like destruction to me and not torment.