March 5, 200818 yr Hogwash, our economy isn't collapsing. I know you'd like to think it is so you can have more to complain about Bush, but it simply isn't collapsing. Where have you been? Heard much good economic news lately? Oil breaks all-time record, nears $104 on falling dollar - Mar 3, 2008 Buffett: economy essentially in a recession - Mar 3, 2008 Manufacturing declines to lowest point since April 2003 - Mar 3, 2008 Construction spending nosedives to 14 year low- Mar 3, 2008 Bank failures expected to rise, but that's not the worst problem - Mar 3, 2008
March 5, 200818 yr So because they are boosting the local communities it is ok that they are criminals? Agreed. Marijuana growers boost the economies in some places, but that doesn't make it right.
March 5, 200818 yr Hogwash, our economy isn't collapsing. I know you'd like to think it is so you can have more to complain about Bush, but it simply isn't collapsing. :lol: Sorry, I thought I was reading a quote from someone in the paper in early 1929. :lol:
March 5, 200818 yr Where have you been? Heard much good economic news lately? Oil breaks all-time record, nears $104 on falling dollar - Mar 3, 2008 Buffett: economy essentially in a recession - Mar 3, 2008 Manufacturing declines to lowest point since April 2003 - Mar 3, 2008 Construction spending nosedives to 14 year low- Mar 3, 2008 Bank failures expected to rise, but that's not the worst problem - Mar 3, 2008 So a slow down or decline = collapse in your world? And yes I have, take a look at Texas, tell them how bad things are. For instance, Ohio, Indiana and Michigan are losing auto jobs, but many of these "runaway plants" are not fleeing to China, Mexico or India. They've moved to more business-friendly U.S. states, including Texas. GM recently announced plans for a new plant to build hybrid cars. Guess where? Near Dallas. In 2006 the Lone Star State exported $5.5 billion of cars and trucks to Mexico and $2.4 billion worth to Canada. Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, a Democrat who supports Mrs. Clinton, blames his state's problems on President Bush. But Ohio's economy has been struggling for years, and most of its wounds are self-inflicted. Ohio now ranks 47th out of 50 in economic competitiveness, according to the American Legislative Exchange Council. Ohio politicians deplore plant closings even as they impose the third highest corporate income tax in the country (10.5%) and the sixth highest personal income tax (8.87%). A common joke is that Ohio lays out the red carpet for companies -- when they leave the state. By contrast, Texas has no income tax, a huge competitive advantage.
March 5, 200818 yr So a slow down or decline = collapse in your world? And yes I have, take a look at Texas, tell them how bad things are. Our economy is especially shaky right now. Mainly because the dollar is so weak. Such was not the case in the late 70's. In 1976 the dollar was worth about 300 yen. Today its worth $103 yen. The Canadian dollar, which was worth about $0.64 USD just five years ago, is currently valued just above the USD. Our economy could turn very, very bad with just a small push over the edge of the precipice.
March 5, 200818 yr So a slow down or decline = collapse in your world? And yes I have, take a look at Texas, tell them how bad things are. For instance, Ohio, Indiana and Michigan are losing auto jobs, but many of these "runaway plants" are not fleeing to China, Mexico or India. They've moved to more business-friendly U.S. states, including Texas. GM recently announced plans for a new plant to build hybrid cars. Guess where? Near Dallas. In 2006 the Lone Star State exported $5.5 billion of cars and trucks to Mexico and $2.4 billion worth to Canada. Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, a Democrat who supports Mrs. Clinton, blames his state's problems on President Bush. But Ohio's economy has been struggling for years, and most of its wounds are self-inflicted. Ohio now ranks 47th out of 50 in economic competitiveness, according to the American Legislative Exchange Council. Ohio politicians deplore plant closings even as they impose the third highest corporate income tax in the country (10.5%) and the sixth highest personal income tax (8.87%). A common joke is that Ohio lays out the red carpet for companies -- when they leave the state. By contrast, Texas has no income tax, a huge competitive advantage. Check out the furniture and textile industries and you will see they aren't relocating to other business friendly states in this nation. They are doing it with cheap labor South of the Border and in Asia. Like it or not those jobs built whole communities that are now in the throes of trying to retool and retrain entire community workforces. The reality is that some places in the US are doing just fine business wise but many are in deep depression and wrecked local economies.
March 5, 200818 yr Our economy is especially shaky right now. Mainly because the dollar is so weak. Such was not the case in the late 70's. In 1976 the dollar was worth about 300 yen. Today its worth $103 yen. The Canadian dollar, which was worth about $0.64 USD just five years ago, is currently valued just above the USD. Our economy could turn very, very bad with just a small push over the edge of the precipice. Are We Talking Ourselves into a Recession?
March 5, 200818 yr Check out the furniture and textile industries and you will see they aren't relocating to other business friendly states in this nation. They are doing it with cheap labor South of the Border and in Asia. Like it or not those jobs built whole communities that are now in the throes of trying to retool and retrain entire community workforces. The reality is that some places in the US are doing just fine business wise but many are in deep depression and wrecked local economies. And again, blame the anti-business politicians in those areas.
March 6, 200818 yr And again, blame the anti-business politicians in those areas. You missed the point. There is no one to blame here. There was no way to pay someone $5 an hour and ask them to live on it here in the US and they could get the labor for that in another country. It's not about "pro-business" areas, it's the fact that owners took their product out of the country. Your suggestion sounds if the workers had just accepted ridiculous wages then they'd have jobs. Sounds like the Capital practices of the late 19th and early 20th centuries when people amassed business fortunes through monopolies and keeping workers in near slavery. If the problem was "anti-business" can you give me a scenario that would have kept these manufacturing jobs in this country or this community?
March 6, 200818 yr You missed the point. There is no one to blame here. There was no way to pay someone $5 an hour and ask them to live on it here in the US and they could get the labor for that in another country. It's not about "pro-business" areas, it's the fact that owners took their product out of the country. Your suggestion sounds if the workers had just accepted ridiculous wages then they'd have jobs. Sounds like the Capital practices of the late 19th and early 20th centuries when people amassed business fortunes through monopolies and keeping workers in near slavery. If the problem was "anti-business" can you give me a scenario that would have kept these manufacturing jobs in this country or this community? Just look to Texas, as I said. Anti-Nafta rhetoric doesn't play well in El Paso, San Antonio and Houston, which have become gateway cities for commerce with Latin America and have flourished since the North American Free Trade Agreement passed Congress in 1993. Mr. Obama's claim of one million lost jobs due to trade deals is laughable in Texas, the state most affected by Nafta. Texas has gained 36,000 manufacturing jobs since 2004 and has ranked as the nation's top exporting state for six years in a row. Its $168 billion of exports in 2007 translate into tens of thousands of jobs. You telling me these people are making $5 an hour? Ohio is a "closed shop" state, which means workers can be forced to join a union whether they wish to or not. Many companies -- especially foreign-owned -- say they will not even consider such locations for new sites. So there is some blame to place.
March 6, 200818 yr I've heard that Barack told the Canadian authorites that his anti-NAFTA talk was just political bluster. He has no desire to cancel the treaty.
March 6, 200818 yr I've heard that Barack told the Canadian authorites that his anti-NAFTA talk was just political bluster. He has no desire to cancel the treaty.Nice. And no one's taking him to task for that? What else is just political bluster? :sssh:
March 6, 200818 yr Just look to Texas, as I said. Anti-Nafta rhetoric doesn't play well in El Paso, San Antonio and Houston, which have become gateway cities for commerce with Latin America and have flourished since the North American Free Trade Agreement passed Congress in 1993. Mr. Obama's claim of one million lost jobs due to trade deals is laughable in Texas, the state most affected by Nafta. Texas has gained 36,000 manufacturing jobs since 2004 and has ranked as the nation's top exporting state for six years in a row. Its $168 billion of exports in 2007 translate into tens of thousands of jobs. You telling me these people are making $5 an hour? Ohio is a "closed shop" state, which means workers can be forced to join a union whether they wish to or not. Many companies -- especially foreign-owned -- say they will not even consider such locations for new sites. So there is some blame to place. Nope, I'm telling you that here in Martinsville we were called the "Sweatshirt Capital" of the world. Tultex, Cannon, VF Knitwear, Nautica all called here home. Office furniture made by Hooker was done here and Bassett Furniture HQ and Stanley Furniture HQ were all here. Now Stanley is the only one left. They were outsourced to China. The Textiles left for places more southern than Texas. The top wage earners were about $14 an hour at textiles and $18 at the furniture. They were outsourced for cheaper labor. BTW, you don't mention what those manufacturing jobs are nor do you give me a scenario for local governments to employ.
March 7, 200818 yr Nope, I'm telling you that here in Martinsville we were called the "Sweatshirt Capital" of the world. Tultex, Cannon, VF Knitwear, Nautica all called here home. Office furniture made by Hooker was done here and Bassett Furniture HQ and Stanley Furniture HQ were all here. Now Stanley is the only one left. They were outsourced to China. The Textiles left for places more southern than Texas. The top wage earners were about $14 an hour at textiles and $18 at the furniture. They were outsourced for cheaper labor. BTW, you don't mention what those manufacturing jobs are nor do you give me a scenario for local governments to employ. GM, Microsoft, Samsung and Fujitsu to name a few. Scenario? Ask Texas.
March 7, 200818 yr GM, Microsoft, Samsung and Fujitsu to name a few. Scenario? Ask Texas. Do the people who work those sound like the same workforce that the area used for 70 years to make furniture and textiles? I'm sure we could go around in the circle for a while Run to State but I'll let my end, end here. :thumb:
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