Well you guys can debate the merit of Vince Young all you want...I'm a Titans fan and I'm happy to have him. They guy's a winner...period. He leads his team, which is the first and foremost thing a QB has to be able to do.

 

Vince has already shown improvement as a passer...something Vick never did in Atlanta. He looks more comfortable and has a better pocket presence than Vick ever did and he isn't looking to run after his first two reads are covered. The guy is a work in progress, and a good one at that.

 

And I'm sick of hearing that Reggie Bush can't be an every down back. They said the same crap about Brian Westbrook until they finally let him try it. Bush can and will be if given the chance.

The big thing with Westbrook is that he is not scared to run it up the gut.....Reggie for his first year and a half, wants to run it around the edge and try to beat people that way.....down in and down out, that's not possible in the NFL.

The big thing with Westbrook is that he is not scared to run it up the gut.....Reggie for his first year and a half, wants to run it around the edge and try to beat people that way.....down in and down out, that's not possible in the NFL.

 

Here's my thing with Bush and that argument, and I certainly could be wrong, but this is what I think. I'll try to say this as clear as possible, if I can.

 

There are several factors that have contributed to this:

 

Running Backs need to get consistent touches to find their groove. Bush hasn't had that. The Saints have used that mantra since he got there that he isn't a between the tackles guy. They gave Deuce the bulk of the carries and tried to use Reggie on swing passes, draws, screens, etc...IMO, they basically limited his uses and made it easier for teams to defend him. It also, IMO, put more pressure on Bush to try to make something big happen every time he got the ball because he knew his touches were going to be limited. I think with Deuce out and assuming Payton uses Bush like a feature back, we should get to see how good he can be. Now he's going to get 25+ touches a game...he can be more patient because he knows they're going to keep feeding him the ball instead of having to wonder when he'll get it again.

 

You may be right that he isn't that good. I just don't think he's had a fair chance to show that because the Saints have limited his touches and how they've used him. I think they should try to use him like Marshall Faulk with the Rams. Personally, I think Bush is going to be a special player if he gets a chance to be a feature back and he's used correctly. He's not going to be a Larry Johnson pound it between the tackles 30 times, but he can be a guy who can run between the tackles successfully, and enough to make defenses respect that option and open things up elsewhere for him.

 

I think he'll be in a process of finding his groove as a feature RB in the NFL and the Saints are also learning how the best way to utilize him in that role. They need look no further than Westbrook in Philly and Faulk in St. Louis, IMO. Reggie can be that guy if given the proper chance.

Okay, then let me pose you this query,,,,,,Will you feel the same if they finish 8-8 this season and 9-7 next season and miss the playoffs for 2 more years?

 

I think Fisher is a great coach no matter what, but if the team does not make it to the playoffs in the next 2 seasons then I believe they need a change. I think if you know about all the players they have lost after their 5 year span of good football then its understandable that they fell off.

I think Fisher is a great coach no matter what, but if the team does not make it to the playoffs in the next 2 seasons then I believe they need a change. I think if you know about all the players they have lost after their 5 year span of good football then its understandable that they fell off.

Hold on a second. Isn't part of the responsibility of the HC to construct his team via draft as well? If you're doing your homework and drafting even fairly well, you should never have a 5 year drought.

Hold on a second. Isn't part of the responsibility of the HC to construct his team via draft as well? If you're doing your homework and drafting even fairly well, you should never have a 5 year drought.

 

Have they had one?

Well you guys can debate the merit of Vince Young all you want...I'm a Titans fan and I'm happy to have him. They guy's a winner...period. He leads his team, which is the first and foremost thing a QB has to be able to do.

 

Vince has already shown improvement as a passer...something Vick never did in Atlanta. He looks more comfortable and has a better pocket presence than Vick ever did and he isn't looking to run after his first two reads are covered. The guy is a work in progress, and a good one at that.

 

And I'm sick of hearing that Reggie Bush can't be an every down back. They said the same crap about Brian Westbrook until they finally let him try it. Bush can and will be if given the chance.

Not true, Vick had been praised the past 2 seasons for "improving as a passer". Look, I'm just not sold that VY can take Tenn to the SB. And ultimately isn't that the goal? I like the kid, but the "running QB's" have never been able to get over the hump in the NFL. I'll stick to my guns and say he won't either, and if I'm right, Fisher will be in trouble IMO sooner than later.

Not true, Vick had been praised the past 2 seasons for "improving as a passer". Look, I'm just not sold that VY can take Tenn to the SB. And ultimately isn't that the goal? I like the kid, but the "running QB's" have never been able to get over the hump in the NFL. I'll stick to my guns and say he won't either, and if I'm right, Fisher will be in trouble IMO sooner than later.

 

Fair enough on your last point...it's just an opinion, and we all have one.

 

I have to disagree on the bolded though. Despite whatever you were listening to or reading praising Vick for "improving as a passer" (I never heard it or read it anywhere), the stats don't bear that out.

 

Here is Vick's numbers from his 4 full season's under center excluding his rookie season in '01 and the injury shortened '03 season...

 

2002 - 54.9%, 195.7 ypg, 16 TD, 8 Int

2004 - 56.4%, 154.2 ypg, 14 TD, 12 Int

2005 - 55.3%, 160.8 ypg, 15 TD, 13 Int

2006 - 52.6%, 154.6 ypg, 20 TD, 13 Int

 

Sorry, I'm just not seeing an improvement there...his best passing stats came as a rookie.

 

 

But, stats weren't really in the front of my mind when I made that statement. I'm basing it on watching Vick for several years and watching Vince for the last two. In Vick, I saw the same player as a rookie as I saw last year...if anything, he regressed.

 

In Vince, I see a guy who is showing real progress. He looks more comfortable in the pocket...his pocket presence looks improved. He isn't looking to take off and run at the first hint of trouble...he's standing in the pocket and looking through his progressions. He's got plenty of room to improve for sure, but the good news to me is that he is going in that direction and actually showing improvement on the field. He's still young so there are going to be bad games like his 3 Int performance against Atlanta, but that happens to every young QB, not just Vince. The fact that his completion percentage has jumped from 51.5% last year to 62.0% this year shows that he's getting a better grasp on the passing game...

 

...the Titans has a team are a young group that is going to mature together so they're going to have a few rough days, but they're getting better and better. They're also not designed to roll up stats...the Titans are a ball control team so it's unlikely Vince will ever be asked to pass for 300 yards and score 30 points every game. He fits what they do and he's getting better every week. I think he will lead Tennessee to a Super Bowl at some point.

 

Only time will tell.

Hold on a second. Isn't part of the responsibility of the HC to construct his team via draft as well? If you're doing your homework and drafting even fairly well, you should never have a 5 year drought.

 

So you are going to criticize what he did at the beginning of his career? I am sure he has learned a lot since then.

Here's my thing with Bush and that argument, and I certainly could be wrong, but this is what I think. I'll try to say this as clear as possible, if I can.

 

There are several factors that have contributed to this:

 

Running Backs need to get consistent touches to find their groove. Bush hasn't had that. The Saints have used that mantra since he got there that he isn't a between the tackles guy. They gave Deuce the bulk of the carries and tried to use Reggie on swing passes, draws, screens, etc...IMO, they basically limited his uses and made it easier for teams to defend him. It also, IMO, put more pressure on Bush to try to make something big happen every time he got the ball because he knew his touches were going to be limited. I think with Deuce out and assuming Payton uses Bush like a feature back, we should get to see how good he can be. Now he's going to get 25+ touches a game...he can be more patient because he knows they're going to keep feeding him the ball instead of having to wonder when he'll get it again.

 

You may be right that he isn't that good. I just don't think he's had a fair chance to show that because the Saints have limited his touches and how they've used him. I think they should try to use him like Marshall Faulk with the Rams. Personally, I think Bush is going to be a special player if he gets a chance to be a feature back and he's used correctly. He's not going to be a Larry Johnson pound it between the tackles 30 times, but he can be a guy who can run between the tackles successfully, and enough to make defenses respect that option and open things up elsewhere for him.

 

I think he'll be in a process of finding his groove as a feature RB in the NFL and the Saints are also learning how the best way to utilize him in that role. They need look no further than Westbrook in Philly and Faulk in St. Louis, IMO. Reggie can be that guy if given the proper chance.

 

Really good post....but I have to retort with the fact that he split time and flourished at SC...he doesn't know any different.

Here's my thing with Bush and that argument, and I certainly could be wrong, but this is what I think. I'll try to say this as clear as possible, if I can.

 

There are several factors that have contributed to this:

 

Running Backs need to get consistent touches to find their groove. Bush hasn't had that. The Saints have used that mantra since he got there that he isn't a between the tackles guy. They gave Deuce the bulk of the carries and tried to use Reggie on swing passes, draws, screens, etc...IMO, they basically limited his uses and made it easier for teams to defend him. It also, IMO, put more pressure on Bush to try to make something big happen every time he got the ball because he knew his touches were going to be limited. I think with Deuce out and assuming Payton uses Bush like a feature back, we should get to see how good he can be. Now he's going to get 25+ touches a game...he can be more patient because he knows they're going to keep feeding him the ball instead of having to wonder when he'll get it again.

 

You may be right that he isn't that good. I just don't think he's had a fair chance to show that because the Saints have limited his touches and how they've used him. I think they should try to use him like Marshall Faulk with the Rams. Personally, I think Bush is going to be a special player if he gets a chance to be a feature back and he's used correctly. He's not going to be a Larry Johnson pound it between the tackles 30 times, but he can be a guy who can run between the tackles successfully, and enough to make defenses respect that option and open things up elsewhere for him.

 

I think he'll be in a process of finding his groove as a feature RB in the NFL and the Saints are also learning how the best way to utilize him in that role. They need look no further than Westbrook in Philly and Faulk in St. Louis, IMO. Reggie can be that guy if given the proper chance.

 

Bush just needs to either bulk up quite a bit or switch to WR, DB. If neither, I don't see him in the league as a significant player after 5 years.

Really good post....but I have to retort with the fact that he split time and flourished at SC...he doesn't know any different.

 

True, but at USC he was playing on a team that was so talented there were openings everywhere for him...and he was way better than the majority of his competition. Also, Joseph Addai has never been a feature back until now...the transtion can be made.

 

Bush may not be cut out for it. As of now, I don't think he's had a fair shot to prove it and I still think he can do it.

Bush just needs to either bulk up quite a bit or switch to WR, DB. If neither, I don't see him in the league as a significant player after 5 years.

 

He's 6-0, 203 pounds...definitely not Larry Johnson, but he's big enough. This rhetoric about him being too small is as bad as saying he can't run between the tackles before he's ever been given a chance to prove it.

^ he can't run between the tackles, and make a career out of it.

^ he can't run between the tackles, and make a career out of it.

 

He doesn't have to.

 

Why does everyone act like he has to run between the tackles 25 times a game...he just has to be able to do it enough to keep defenses honest, and I think he can. Like I said, he's in the Faulk/Westbrook mold...he's not Larry Johnson or Rudi Johnson. Brian Westbrook is 5-10, 203...I have complete confidence that Reggie can do anything Westbrook can, and do it better once he finds his comfort zone.

 

If Bush runs successfully between the tackles 10 times a game, then defenses will have to respect that threat, which will open up the rest of the field for him...I think there could be games when Bush runs heavily between the tackles and gets a lot of carries, but he's not going to be doing it every single week...again, Marshall Faulk...

 

Hypothetically...give Bush 30 touches in a game

 

10 runs between the tackles

10 runs outside

10 receptions

 

Something along that lines...I see no reason to believe he won't be successful doing that. They did a nice job with Bush last year, but he's a #2 overall pick...if you used that pick on a guy who is going to be used as a decoy more than a real player, then you wasted it. McAllister getting hurt might end up being a blessing for the Saints...it's going to force them to do what they should have been doing to start with.