I'm out, I can't take all the yelling...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :thumb:

I understand what you are saying and agree in principle with. I believe that there is a right and a wrong way to do things and/or address each individual situation. There are no clear cut manual type rules. What I was saying is that a kid should NEVER be humiliated/made fun of by a coach in front of his peers. If a kid has butt tearing coming that is one thing, by all means deliver it but do so to where he will want to still play for you and not be ashamed in front of his teammtes, corrected ....yes - ashamed and humiliated...No.

 

I think as another has stated today's society is "softer" than 20 years ago and beyond. Things that were not thought twice about then are considered unacceptable today. A coach has to realize that and adapt. A coach can still "Yell" idf he thinks that it is needed to get his "points" across and do in way that will demand their attention and instill without question who is in charge, what was wrong and what to do and leave no doubts about it without resorting to verbal bashing/vulgar language.

Different things work for different athletes. I think its important to know your players and what motivates them. I think its also important not to "pick-on" players. I think teammates need to see that your justice is blind, even if it is heavy handed. Most athletes are very competitive (duh) and so to be verbally bashed in front of teammates is often a good motivator because they don't want to be in that position again. I'm against Bobby Knight type coaching, but a little grabbing of the grill or finger in the chest never hurt me. It just made me try even harder.

Different things work for different athletes. I think its important to know your players and what motivates them. I think its also important not to "pick-on" players. I think teammates need to see that your justice is blind, even if it is heavy handed. Most athletes are very competitive (duh) and so to be verbally bashed in front of teammates is often a good motivator because they don't want to be in that position again. I'm against Bobby Knight type coaching, but a little grabbing of the grill or finger in the chest never hurt me. It just made me try even harder.

However, for some players this style is not a motivator at all but destroys confidence and desire. I think a one size fits all approach is not good in anything . . . I repeat, I am not talking about simply yelling, I am talking about cussing, demeaning, and public degrading of players, how can this ever be right? What is wrong with Tony Dungy's style . . . he seems to be quite successful with it and his players love him and would do anything for him.

However, for some players this style is not a motivator at all but destroys confidence and desire. I think a one size fits all approach is not good in anything . . . I repeat, I am not talking about simply yelling, I am talking about cussing, demeaning, and public degrading of players, how can this ever be right? What is wrong with Tony Dungy's style . . . he seems to be quite successful with it and his players love him and would do anything for him.

 

Exactly how is a coach supposed to figure out which way works best for a particular player? I know trial and error with each athlete.

 

Double standard answer, IMO. Class room setting is no longer controlled by the teacher. It is controlled by "self-esteem first" parents. My favorite teachers were the ones who taught with a stern firmness and would call people out for not doing their work or paying attention. But today that "public humiliation in front of their peers" would kill little "Johnny's" self-esteem. Maybe not the best answer, but I feel if the classroom was run more like sports teams the students would benefit.

However, for some players this style is not a motivator at all but destroys confidence and desire. I think a one size fits all approach is not good in anything . . . I repeat, I am not talking about simply yelling, I am talking about cussing, demeaning, and public degrading of players, how can this ever be right? What is wrong with Tony Dungy's style . . . he seems to be quite successful with it and his players love him and would do anything for him.

 

If everyone had Peyton Manning as their quarterback, Marvin Harrison as reciever, etc... then everyone could be successful with the Tony Dungy style. There is nothing wrong with his style of coaching. It works for him because it is really how he is.

 

I'm with you on the cussing, over the top public degrading, etc. However, I do believe that coaches must put players in high pressure situations to see how they will react when the bright lights come on. Those players who can push through and succeed can gain even greater confidence and desire... those who can't would probably crumble when the pressure of the game became too great. This is the reason for the double standard you want the answer to - teachers are to help the weak along - coaches are to sift out the weak and to find out which of the weak has the potential to be strong...

 

There seems to me that there is a very wide gap between Dungy's method and the few coaches who go too far.

Exactly how is a coach supposed to figure out which way works best for a particular player? I know trial and error with each athlete.

 

Double standard answer, IMO. Class room setting is no longer controlled by the teacher. It is controlled by "self-esteem first" parents. My favorite teachers were the ones who taught with a stern firmness and would call people out for not doing their work or paying attention. But today that "public humiliation in front of their peers" would kill little "Johnny's" self-esteem. Maybe not the best answer, but I feel if the classroom was run more like sports teams the students would benefit.

Obviously, I am having a difficult time making myself clear. I am a classroom teacher who is firm and does require accountability among my students. I am not talking about a coach who tells a kid they messed up and then shows them what they did wrong and teaches them how to correct it. My goodness, I have no problem with that at all. I am talking about literal verbal and mental abuse in front of the peers . . . that is unnecessary and uncalled for. Cursing, berating, belittling, etc. are detriments to the process rather than helps. It shouldn't be done. PERIOD.

Different things work for different athletes. I think its important to know your players and what motivates them. I think its also important not to "pick-on" players. I think teammates need to see that your justice is blind, even if it is heavy handed. Most athletes are very competitive (duh) and so to be verbally bashed in front of teammates is often a good motivator because they don't want to be in that position again. I'm against Bobby Knight type coaching, but a little grabbing of the grill or finger in the chest never hurt me. It just made me try even harder.

:thumb: I can understand that and feel basically the same way. I had said the same thing in an earlier post (#7) about knowing your players and what motivates them. I am not against "getting in ones grill" so to speak either. Imo there is a line that one does not cross when doing so and I have known of "some" coaches that have, cetainly not all and the ones that I am talking about imo are a minority. Those are the few "ego maniac idots" out there that some lump all coaches in. There are FAR more good coaches than bad ones, not even comparable or close.:thumb:

Obviously, I am having a difficult time making myself clear. I am a classroom teacher who is firm and does require accountability among my students. I am not talking about a coach who tells a kid they messed up and then shows them what they did wrong and teaches them how to correct it. My goodness, I have no problem with that at all. I am talking about literal verbal and mental abuse in front of the peers . . . that is unnecessary and uncalled for. Cursing, berating, belittling, etc. are detriments to the process rather than helps. It shouldn't be done. PERIOD.

I don't think that a teacher and a sports coach are the same thing. As far as the rest of your post, I'll simply disagree and bow out.

I'm really for the coach that rips his player a new oriface for not playing his hardest. He should either put out or join the chess team.

 

 

Shirley you're not downplaying the efforts of the chess team. In no other sport is the mental agility of the athlete called into play. It's bad enough to deal with the guilt of sacrificing the pawns, the diplomacy needed to work with religious leaders who will only move diagonally, knights who know that the real military power rests with the Queen, and a sovereign so limited that he can only travel one step at a time in any particular direction. That, Sir, is pressure and I believe you should apologize to the young men and women who deal with the issues both in practice and competition. I hope your favorite pen leaks all over your pocket protector!

I am talking about literal verbal and mental abuse in front of the peers . . . that is unnecessary and uncalled for. Cursing, berating, belittling, etc. are detriments to the process rather than helps. It shouldn't be done. PERIOD.

 

 

You keep going on about the cursing and berating. I just don't see many coaches that have this method anymore. I still see yelling but I don't see the cursing, berating, and belittling in today's game. I am talking about baseball and basketball because I do not see many of the other sports.

Obviously, I am having a difficult time making myself clear. I am a classroom teacher who is firm and does require accountability among my students. I am not talking about a coach who tells a kid they messed up and then shows them what they did wrong and teaches them how to correct it. My goodness, I have no problem with that at all. I am talking about literal verbal and mental abuse in front of the peers . . . that is unnecessary and uncalled for. Cursing, berating, belittling, etc. are detriments to the process rather than helps. It shouldn't be done. PERIOD.

 

 

Who are you talking of that is doing this. I am around it quite a bit. Let me know and i will tell you if it is as bad as you say. There is none right off hand that are any worse that what you hear on Prime time TV. PM me and fill me in. That is if you are talking about Corbins staff. See them everyday, if you are i think you have been mis informed. Are they hard on them yes. If you were at Belfry you would be too. Let them do what they do and watch the game on friday night and enjoy it.

You keep going on about the cursing and berating. I just don't see many coaches that have this method anymore. I still see yelling but I don't see the cursing, berating, and belittling in today's game. I am talking about baseball and basketball because I do not see many of the other sports.

You may not have seen it but trust me I am not just making it up it is going on. It is obvious that most posters don't see the harm in this. Will just agree to disagree. You can be wrong if you want.

With many different coaches, you'll have many different personalities. Some are more Type "A" and others, more reserved.

 

Various teaching methods will result, all trying to achieve the same goal. Some will use curse words, others won't. Some will have loud voices, others will be soft spoken. Some will talk in general and some be specific....often they vary, on the same staff.

 

Cussing and berating doesn't belong in sports, if talking directly at a student-athlete. I've seen and even done myself, use words describing the lazy play or unmotivated effort of a player or team. In competitive moments, players and coaches will use language, that is not common to either but it does happen.

With many different coaches, you'll have many different personalities. Some are more Type "A" and others, more reserved.

 

Various teaching methods will result, all trying to achieve the same goal. Some will use curse words, others won't. Some will have loud voices, others will be soft spoken. Some will talk in general and some be specific....often they vary, on the same staff.

 

Cussing and berating doesn't belong in sports, if talking directly at a student-athlete. I've seen and even done myself, use words describing the lazy play or unmotivated effort of a player or team. In competitive moments, players and coaches will use language, that is not common to either but it does happen.

:thumb: Excellent post.

Each player responds to a different style of coaching. Some players are going to naturally need pushing. They need the in-the-face types to call them out if they are slacking and make them run suicides after practice. This doesn't work for other types of players as it will only frustrate them. I think it is incumbent on the coach to distinguish these differences and coach accordingly. A lot of coaches are probably too quick to go wholly in one way or another, either being too lackadaisical or too iron fisted. I think a good coach strikes a balance between the two.