Immigration bill advances in Senate

[HHSDad]

This is bad news for those opposing this very bad immigration bill. Shame on Bush and the other sellout Republicans who want to get the Hispanic vote and please big business.

 

WASHINGTON - The Senate voted Tuesday to jump-start a stalled immigration measure to legalize millions of unlawful immigrants.

 

President Bush said the bill offered a "historic opportunity for Congress to act," and appeared optimistic about its passage by week's end.

 

The pivotal test-vote was 64-35 to revive the divisive legislation. It still faces formidable obstacles in the Senate, including bitter opposition by GOP conservatives and attempts by some waverers in both parties to revise its key elements.

 

Supporters needed 60 votes to scale procedural hurdles and return to the bill. A similar test-vote earlier this month found just 45 supporters, only seven of them Republicans.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070626/ap_on_go_co/immigration_congress_16;_ylt=AgrphSPK0qLXbkHGt__PyrbZa7gF

[rockmom]

This is bad news for those opposing this very bad immigration bill. Shame on Bush and the other sellout Republicans who want to get the Hispanic vote and please big business.

 

 

So, are you saying that the bill is bad, in it's entirety, as well as the intent?

[HHSDad]

So, are you saying that the bill is bad, in it's entirety, as well as the intent?

I'm saying that the bill has many more problems than solutions. I'm in favor of a guest worker program and amnesty to those who have been here for many, many years. Everthing I've seen on this bill shows that it opens the floodgates to all comers, has no enforcement provisions, and endangers social programs for current citizens.

[rockmom]

From WhiteHouse.gov

 

Maybe more could be done, but as I read this I think it's a good, fair start.

[Fastbreak]

I've had it with politics and politicians of all flavors. The American people and the America I was raised to believe in have taken a back seat to agenda driven power plays.

 

I'm tired of left wing fruit cakes cramming filth and pornography in our faces under the guise of freedom of speech, and then raising three kinds of hell over the Ten Commandments being posted in a public place, or a high school senior mentioning her thanks to Jesus Christ in her valedictory speech.

 

We get fed tons of pork barrel schemes while our troops fighting to preserve our liberties do without the tools they need to finish the job we sent them to do.

 

I cannot believe the arrogance and condescention that I see coming from Washington.

 

I cannot believe that I spend nearly five months a year to fund a government supposedly in place to look out for the best interests of my family and me.

 

It's time for a second American Revolution.

 

We can start by tossing out the clowns supposedly representing us in Washington. Republican, Democrat or other, they all need to go.

[rockmom]

I've had it with politics and politicians of all flavors. The American people and the America I was raised to believe in have taken a back seat to agenda driven power plays.

 

I'm tired of left wing fruit cakes cramming filth and pornography in our faces under the guise of freedom of speech, and then raising three kinds of hell over the Ten Commandments being posted in a public place, or a high school senior mentioning her thanks to Jesus Christ in her valedictory speech.

 

We get fed tons of pork barrel schemes while our troops fighting to preserve our liberties do without the tools they need to finish the job we sent them to do.

 

I cannot believe the arrogance and condescention that I see coming from Washington.

 

I cannot believe that I spend nearly five months a year to fund a government supposedly in place to look out for the best interests of my family and me.

 

It's time for a second American Revolution.

 

We can start by tossing out the clowns supposedly representing us in Washington. Republican, Democrat or other, they all need to go.

 

Not that I don't think this would be great conversation, but shouldn't we start another thread with this post?

 

Seriously...how about we do that, and then we can focus on the immigration topic here, and our general malcontent and litenay of dissatisfactions without interuption. Would that be ok?

[Hasbeen]

I've had it with politics and politicians of all flavors. The American people and the America I was raised to believe in have taken a back seat to agenda driven power plays.

 

I'm tired of left wing fruit cakes cramming filth and pornography in our faces under the guise of freedom of speech, and then raising three kinds of hell over the Ten Commandments being posted in a public place, or a high school senior mentioning her thanks to Jesus Christ in her valedictory speech.

 

We get fed tons of pork barrel schemes while our troops fighting to preserve our liberties do without the tools they need to finish the job we sent them to do.

 

I cannot believe the arrogance and condescention that I see coming from Washington.

 

I cannot believe that I spend nearly five months a year to fund a government supposedly in place to look out for the best interests of my family and me.

 

It's time for a second American Revolution.

 

We can start by tossing out the clowns supposedly representing us in Washington. Republican, Democrat or other, they all need to go.

 

 

OK, so we can put you down as a "no"? :lol:

 

 

 

Start a thread. I'll be more than happy to post in it.

[Hasbeen]

A recent poll in California discovered that while 29% of their residents thought illegal entry was a serious problem, 71% stated "Es no problemo."

[Hearsay]

I don't like the bill. I've read it in full. It is fiscally irresponsible, more on that another time. But in addition, Bush has lauded it as having built-in penalty mechanisms and therefore not being "free" amnesty. BUT, a careful reading of the bill shows that it allows the illegal alien to gain a temporary citizenship status without paying ANY penalty at all, upon very little proof provided, and the fact of the matter is that the government does not have the resources or the will to revoke those temporary statuses at a later date. Its kind of like getting temporary custody. You really have permanent custody, and the label is just semantics, and these people will have paid nothing . . .

 

What bothers me most, though, is that my Commander-in-Chief had the gall to sit down there and tell me that since he grew up in Texas with Mexicans, that this was the humanitarian thing to do, implying that my heartfelt opposition to the bill was somehow un-Christian and wrong. How dare you, Sir . . .

[stickymitts]

A recent poll in California discovered that while 29% of their residents thought illegal entry was a serious problem, 71% stated "Es no problemo."

 

NICE!!!

[rockmom]

• U.S. Passport issued by the State Department (for U.S. citizens only).
• Document issued by the State Department or DHS containing photo, along with other biometrics and additional personal identifying info needed to ensure identity (for non-citizens).
• State-issued, REAL ID Act-compliant license presented along with a Social Security card.
• For a limited period before implementation of the REAL ID Act, a State-issued license with a photograph that can be verified by DHS, presented along with a birth certificate and Social Security card.

Current Law	If Bipartisan Immigration Reform Bill Is Passed
The civil fine for employers who hire illegal workers is between $275 and $2,200 per alien for first-time offenders; between $3,300 and $11,000 per alien for four-time offenders.	The civil fine for employers who hire illegal workers will be raised to $5,000 per alien for first-time offenders; to $75,000 per alien for four-time offenders.
The maximum criminal fine for employers repeatedly engaged in hiring illegal workers is $3,000 per alien.	The maximum criminal fine for employers repeatedly engaged in hiring illegal workers is $75,000 per alien.
Immigrants caught crossing the border illegally may reenter the country legally as soon as 10 years after the offense. The crime of illegal entry is a misdemeanor for the first offense, subject to a maximum sentence of only six months, even for aliens with serious criminal records. There is no mandatory minimum for illegally reentering the United States after having already been removed.	Immigrants caught crossing the border illegally after the new law passes will be permanently barred from receiving work or tourist visas from the U.S. The crime of illegal entry will be punishable by sentences of up to 20 years, depending on the person's criminal history. There is a mandatory minimum of 60 days for illegal reentry, with higher mandatory minimums of a year or more for criminal aliens who illegally reenter the United States.
Dangerous criminal aliens who cannot be removed from the U.S. because no other country is willing to accept them must be released into society after just six months.	The government will be given authority to detain dangerous criminal aliens as long as it takes to deport them.
There is no legal basis for the Departments of Justice and Homeland Security to deny admission to aliens solely on the basis of their participation in a criminal gang.	The Departments of Justice and Homeland Security will be given new authority to deny admission to or remove aliens solely based on their participation in a criminal gang.
Employers have only a limited ability to determine whether the documentation provided by workers is authentic.	A reliable Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) will provide employers with access to identification photographs available in government databases in order to verify the authenticity of documents presented by workers.
Workers are allowed to present more than two dozen documents to prove their identity and authorization to work.	Workers will present a limited range of secure government-issued or government-authorized IDs including:
The Social Security Administration currently has access to tax return information indicating which businesses are employing the largest numbers of illegal aliens, but is legally prohibited from sharing that information with DHS, severely hampering DHS's ability to investigate and prosecute the worst offenders.	Upon request, DHS will receive information from SSA about workers whose Social Security Numbers do not match their names and about Social Security Numbers that are used by more than one worker.
The current criminal provisions do not fully cover passport trafficking and immigration practitioner fraud. Offenders are not automatically inadmissible and removable.	The bill contains clear and broad criminal penalties for passport and visa trafficking, practitioner fraud, and other forms of fraud. In addition, many of these offenders are made inadmissible and removable.
DHS must prove that employers "knowingly" hired an unauthorized alien before the employer is liable for civil penalties.	Employers who hire unauthorized aliens with "reckless disregard that the alien is an unauthorized alien" are liable for civil sanctions. This tougher legal standard makes it easier to hold liable businesses that hire and continue to employ illegal aliens.

The Bipartisan Immigration Reform Bill Will Build On The Administration's Current Enforcement Efforts

In FY 2006, The Border Patrol Caught And Sent Back Nearly 1.2 Million Illegal Immigrants. So far in FY 2007, more than 600,000 illegal immigrants have been removed.

Since The President Took Office In 2001, The Administration Has More Than Doubled Funding For Border Security – From $4.6 Billion In 2001 To $10.4 Billion In 2007. As a result of this investment and other deterrence factors, the number of people apprehended illegally crossing our Southern border is down by more than 25 percent in 2007 from this point in 2006.

Immigration And Customs Enforcement (ICE) Has Replaced The Old Approach Of Administrative Hearings And Fines For Employers Who Knowingly Hire Illegal Aliens With A Much Tougher Combination Of Criminal Prosecutions And Asset Forfeitures.

• Arrests for criminal violations brought in worksite enforcement actions have increased from 49 in FY 2000 to a record 716 in FY 2006 – a nearly 15-fold increase.
  
• During the first half of FY 2007, ICE obtained criminal fines, restitutions, and civil judgments in worksite enforcement investigations against egregious violators in excess of $29 million.
  
• The Administration requested funding for nearly 1,300 additional ICE personnel in FY 2007 and another 515 in FY 2008 to support enforcement, including investigations.

The Administration Has Expanded The Border Patrol From Approximately 9,000 Agents In 2001 To More Than 13,000 Agents Today. By the end of 2008, there will be a total of more than 18,000 agents, doubling the size of the Border Patrol under the President's leadership.

The Administration Has Effectively Ended The Practice Of "Catch And Release" At Our Borders.

• Since 2001, The Administration Has Provided Funding For 7,798 New Beds To Accommodate Apprehended Illegal Immigrants – A 40 Percent Increase.

• The Administration Has Expanded The Use Of Expedited Removals. The number of expedited removals has nearly doubled in the last two years, from 41,968 in 2004 to approximately 90,000 in 2006.

Enforcement Alone Will Not Work To Secure Our Borders And Meet The Needs Of Our Economy

The Bill Will Better Secure Our Nation By Providing A Mechanism For Illegal Immigrants With Clean Records And Steady Jobs To Come Out Of The Shadows And Be Accounted For In A Regulated System, On A Probationary Basis. This will let law enforcement officials know who is in the country and allow immigration enforcement officers to focus their resources on apprehending violent criminals and terrorists.

• This Proposal Is Not Amnesty Because Illegal Workers Must Acknowledge That They Broke The Law, Pay A $1,000 Fine, And Undergo Criminal Background Checks To Obtain A Z Visa. To apply for a green card at a date years into the future, Z visa workers must wait in line behind those who applied lawfully, pay an additional $4,000 fine, complete accelerated English and civics requirements, and compete in the merit system based on the skills and attributes they will bring to the United States.

The Bill Also Provides A Temporary Worker Program To Help Reduce The Number Of People Trying To Sneak Across Our Borders. This program will provide a lawful and orderly channel for foreign workers to fill the jobs that Americans are not doing.

[rockmom]

I see increased fines, changes in reentry laws and punishments, changes in the ability to deny entry to, or deport based upon participation in a criminal gang, the implementation of EEVS to assist employers, criminal penalties for document fraud, less ability for employers to claim ignorance in hiring illegals....

 

I don't see what you guys are seeing. I see a good, first step toward a long-term solution.

 

I think everyone wants a quick-fix, and that's not 1) feasible, 2) enforcable in a fair and reasonable way, and 3) beneficial for a long-term solution.

[shooter]

I see increased fines, changes in reentry laws and punishments, changes in the ability to deny entry to, or deport based upon participation in a criminal gang, the implementation of EEVS to assist employers, criminal penalties for document fraud, less ability for employers to claim ignorance in hiring illegals....

 

I don't see what you guys are seeing. I see a good, first step toward a long-term solution.

 

I think everyone wants a quick-fix, and that's not 1) feasible, 2) enforcable in a fair and reasonable way, and 3) beneficial for a long-term solution.

 

Passing another law that they won't enforce doesn't help; it hurts. Enforcement must be the first step and that doesn't require passing a new law. Get control of the borders first then we can talk about what to do about those already here. However, legalizing those who are already here without gaining control of the borders will only result in even more people coming hear illegally. In ten years we will still be having a discussion about about what to do with 10-20 million illegals. The problem will be that it will be a complete new set of 10-20 million illegals than those we are discussing today.

[rockmom]

Passing another law that they won't enforce doesn't help; it hurts. Enforcement must be the first step and that doesn't require passing a new law. Get control of the borders first then we can talk about what to do about those already here. However, legalizing those who are already here without gaining control of the borders will only result in even more people coming hear illegally. In ten years we will still be having a discussion about about what to do with 10-20 million illegals. The problem will be that it will be a complete new set of 10-20 million illegals than those we are discussing today.

 

 

I thought that's what the Mexican Wall was supposed to accomplish.

[swamprat]

We built a wall of Mexicans? Cool!

 

Instead of reading the spin, here is the bill itself ....

 

S.1639 Title: A bill to provide for comprehensive immigration reform and for other purposes.