I mentioned a possible solution a while back, but people looked at me like I was crazy.

Let's not start that again, Mr. Swift.

That's a pretty limited view of cloture. You could also say that cloture is the tool used to end fillibusters.

You're absolutely correct. That just wasn't the case with this bill.

 

From what I'm hearing, this bill is so encompassing that the senators don't really know what all is in it. They need to put the brakes on and figure out what has a chance of working and what is best for this country. This has become a legacy bill. What they're trying to pass has become less important than just getting it passed in any form.

You're absolutely correct. That just wasn't the case with this bill.

 

From what I'm hearing, this bill is so encompassing that the senators don't really know what all is in it. They need to put the brakes on and figure out what has a chance of working and what is best for this country. This has become a legacy bill. What they're trying to pass has become less important than just getting it passed in any form.

Well, worry not. This bill has zero chance until a new President sits in office.

If we keep opening the gates for Mexico to free lance we are going to have another Civil War in 25 years.

 

So how do you reconcile this post with your post #18? Bush attempted to do something about it and you complain. Other's on here have said it was defeated by business leaders who want the flow of cheap income. So do you support doing something about it or not?

Well, worry not. This bill has zero chance until a new President sits in office.

 

Don't think another president will matter. This bill has to make it to a new president. I don't think it will.

Don't think another president will matter. This bill has to make it to a new president. I don't think it will.

I don't think this bill will either. I mean any incarnation or cousin will also have to wait. Immigration reform is dead until after the '08 election.

Well, worry not. This bill has zero chance until a new President sits in office.

I don't follow. Bush is supporting this bill. Do you think the supporters of this bill will be happy until something gets passed? I think the DNC would really like to have a lot of new Hispanic voters on their rosters for 2008.

I think the DNC would really like to have a lot of new Hispanic voters on their rosters for 2008.

That is what stinks the most about this bill. Republican or Democrat, the rush to curry favor with an emerging voter block overrides the long term strain the passage of this amnesty bill would put on our shoulders.

 

Politicians stink... :irked:

I don't follow. Bush is supporting this bill. Do you think the supporters of this bill will be happy until something gets passed? I think the DNC would really like to have a lot of new Hispanic voters on their rosters for 2008.

Nothing is going to change on the calculus until after 2008. Bush want's it very badly, but his lame duck period has really started and he can't marshall the Republican votes it needs to pass. There are probably enough Democrats to pass it, but too many Democrats facing electoral opposition to get it through with the level of Republican support that it has.

Nothing is going to change on the calculus until after 2008. Bush want's it very badly, but his lame duck period has really started and he can't marshall the Republican votes it needs to pass. There are probably enough Democrats to pass it, but too many Democrats facing electoral opposition to get it through with the level of Republican support that it has.

Even Dem senators that wern't facing an election voted against cloture. Like Webb, (D) VA; McCaskill (D) MO; Testor (D) MN

Even Dem senators that wern't facing an election voted against cloture. Like Webb, (D) VA; McCaskill (D) MO; Testor (D) MN

I realize that, I just think it was a factor.

Here is what I don't understand about the Democratic supporters' position, and there's really no way around this:

 

When 60-75% of the country opposes the War in Iraq in the "popular" polls, and Bush continues to persevere there, he is degraded as blatantly disregarding the "clear will of the people."

 

When 60-75% of the country oppose granting amnesty or semi-amnesty to illegal immigrants through this piece of legislation in the "popular" polls, and the Democrats continue to push for passage of the bill, they are lauded for taking a "principled stand" on the issue and "putting the right foot foward."

 

How can you reconcile that?

Here is what I don't understand about the Democratic supporters' position, and there's really no way around this:

 

When 60-75% of the country opposes the War in Iraq in the "popular" polls, and Bush continues to persevere there, he is degraded as blatantly disregarding the "clear will of the people."

 

When 60-75% of the country oppose granting amnesty or semi-amnesty to illegal immigrants through this piece of legislation in the "popular" polls, and the Democrats continue to push for passage of the bill, they are lauded for taking a "principled stand" on the issue and "putting the right foot foward."

 

How can you reconcile that?

Except the Democratic congress is taking a bit of a butt-kicking on issue #1 as well, so I don't get your point.

I get it.

 

Excellent observation Hearsay... :thumb:

Except the Democratic congress is taking a bit of a butt-kicking on issue #1 as well, so I don't get your point.

 

:lol: I know you don't really believe that.