May 14, 200719 yr ^I doubt we will ever see a Tiger Woods museum. Probably won't even see a Michael Jordan museum. I would dare say neither of those guys would be chosen out of millions of Americans to light an Olympic torch, either. What if Ali had never developed Parkinsons? Does he still hold the same stature as he does today? YES! Ali took a stand against America's involvement in Vietnam at a time when he was at the top of his profession. Even when stripped of his title, he did not change his opposition to the war. When race AND Vietnam were huge dividing issues for our country, he stood up on the unpopular side of both and refused to back down. Many people didn't like him because of his...ahem..."outspoken" nature and thought of him as "an uppity insert racial epithet of your choice". His stature was earned by his exceptional athletic ability, his moral stance and his willingness to take a stand. How many of today's athletes have taken any kind of moral stand at the risk of losing money???
May 14, 200719 yr I hate to admit it, but I never really understood it either. Great man I'm sure, but he's an icon and why? :thumb: My thoughts as well. I never got the whole love affair with him.
May 14, 200719 yr Put Michael Jordan in a pair of boxing trunks. Put a charimatic Tiger Woods in a pair of boxing trunks. and you have Ali. Maybe as a sports icon. But they don't come anywhere close to the things Muhammad Ali has done for the world.
May 14, 200719 yr Parkinsons disease has absolutely nothing to do with Ali's legacy. He was and is simply the greatest entertainer in the history of sports, period. Very true but still not why he is an icon.
May 14, 200719 yr There is NO big deal about Cassius Clay in my mind and never will be. Yes, he was a great boxer, no argument there. Yes, he turned his back on his country when many young men went and fought and died for America and he chose to turn his back on his country. That fact in itself reduces him to trash in my book. Cassius Clay (and yes, his name is Cassius Clay) made to be a hero or icon is a sad joke.................Period. Next time I will tell you how I really feel. I understand where you are coming form but I couldn't disagree more. If standing up for your beliefs in this country lowers you to trash then this isn't the country I thought it was.
May 14, 200719 yr What if Ali had never developed Parkinsons? Does he still hold the same stature as he does today? He would still be greatly loved by many but it wouldn't be close to what it is now. He would still be speaking his mind and telling it like it is and that upsets people. He would have many more publicly open advocates if he did not have Parkinson's.
May 14, 200719 yr I understand where you are coming form but I couldn't disagree more. If standing up for your beliefs in this country lowers you to trash then this isn't the country I thought it was. Everyone has their opinion but I might also say in reply to you comment that if everyone refused to fight for this country then we wouldn't have a country. May God bless all the men and women that have served this great Nation and has went to war to defend us. Without them we wouldn't have the right to get on mesage boards like this and post our beliefs . Those are your heroes, not the likes of Cassius Clay.
May 15, 200719 yr Everyone has their opinion but I might also say in reply to you comment that if everyone refused to fight for this country then we wouldn't have a country. May God bless all the men and women that have served this great Nation and has went to war to defend us. Without them we wouldn't have the right to get on mesage boards like this and post our beliefs . Those are your heroes, not the likes of Cassius Clay. If everyone around the world refused to fight for their country then the world would be a lot better of a place but that's a whole different story.
May 15, 200719 yr ^I doubt we will ever see a Tiger Woods museum. Probably won't even see a Michael Jordan museum. I would dare say neither of those guys would be chosen out of millions of Americans to light an Olympic torch, either. What if Ali had never developed Parkinsons? Does he still hold the same stature as he does today? I have to disagree wtih that, someday, maybe.
May 15, 200719 yr While I wouldn't go as far as call him "trash", I have little admiration for the man. He is a draft dodger first and foremost IMO, his boxing career means little to me. He didn't pass the IQ test to get into the army. How many other celebrities got drafted in the 60's??? However, they took a young successful black man, who scared the establishment to death, and they tried to make an example of him. Say what you want, the US Gov't had it in for him.
May 15, 200719 yr Everyone has their opinion but I might also say in reply to you comment that if everyone refused to fight for this country then we wouldn't have a country. May God bless all the men and women that have served this great Nation and has went to war to defend us. Without them we wouldn't have the right to get on mesage boards like this and post our beliefs . Those are your heroes, not the likes of Cassius Clay. :thumb: Excellent post Oldrambler!!!! The Clay issue has been hashed out many times on this board and my stance has not changed since the first one I posted on. Cassius Clay was a coward and a draft dodger.
May 15, 200719 yr Cassius Clay was a coward and a draft dodger. I think of the line in n old Merle Haggard song: "they love our milk and honey but then they preach about another way of livin'". and "if you don't love it, leave it". whe I think about Cassius Clay.
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