May 4, 200719 yr Ace, you mention 3 verses one twice. You also mention some mens names. Hey thats OK. I've seen a lot of your interpretation and your think so's. You IGNORED my question about Genesis 19 about Sodom and Gomorrah. I want to discuss Homosexuals views through scripture with you. I want to make sure I understand your view through scripture on it. Only if you want to.
May 4, 200719 yr Ace you made a reference that ALL can come to salvation through Christ. I have been thinking about that and think that references nationalities of people and not a quantity ALL. The Jewish nation, to my understanding, felt they were the chosen people and the Messiah came specifically for them. But it did not. That ALL is reference to Jews and Gentiles, Roman and slave, male and female, weak and strong, poor and rich. All nationalities, all economic status, all gender. Jesus is for ALL. That is the all and not a quantity all.
May 4, 200719 yr Ace you made a reference that ALL can come to salvation through Christ. I have been thinking about that and think that references nationalities of people and not a quantity ALL. The Jewish nation, to my understanding, felt they were the chosen people and the Messiah came specifically for them. But it did not. That ALL is reference to Jews and Gentiles, Roman and slave, male and female, weak and strong, poor and rich. All nationalities, all economic status, all gender. Jesus is for ALL. That is the all and not a quantity all. I always took it to mean ALL can come to salvation through Christ, but there is a big difference in a statement that says "all can come" and one that says "all will come". I think what you say is accurate, but I think it does literally mean that all, as in every single person, can know salvation in Christ...it's just a question of whether they will accept it. Again, you can bring up people that have never had the gospel preached to them, and I can't answer that question. All I know is that I am certain that people who have been told of the gospel of Christ, that is their only ticket.
May 4, 200719 yr I always took it to mean ALL can come to salvation through Christ, but there is a big difference in a statement that says "all can come" and one that says "all will come". I think what you say is accurate, but I think it does literally mean that all, as in every single person, can know salvation in Christ...it's just a question of whether they will accept it. Again, you can bring up people that have never had the gospel preached to them, and I can't answer that question. All I know is that I am certain that people who have been told of the gospel of Christ, that is their only ticket. I agree that the Scripture is pointing out that all CAN COME to salvation. Not all will come as you have said.
May 4, 200719 yr Acemona's theology is basically what Bishop Carlton Pearson is teaching in his Gospel of Inclusion. http://www.bishoppearson.com/
May 6, 200719 yr I don't believe in a physical hell. There doesn't need to be one, if we don't have physical bodies. If no physical bodies, why all the banquets, wedding feasts and even one Scripture that says we will be served meals by God? We might also still have racial differences. Revelation 7:9 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society The Great Multitude in White Robes 9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. For some reason the writer could distinguish that every nation, tribe and people were there. He did indicate that he looked and saw this. Wouldn't that mean that at the very least there is a possibility that there will be a visual difference between us? If we still have racial differences, it is an easy jump to think that our bodies will look similar to what we have presently but still different and better.
May 7, 200719 yr Author If no physical bodies, why all the banquets, wedding feasts and even one Scripture that says we will be served meals by God? We might also still have racial differences. Revelation 7:9 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society The Great Multitude in White Robes 9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. For some reason the writer could distinguish that every nation, tribe and people were there. He did indicate that he looked and saw this. Wouldn't that mean that at the very least there is a possibility that there will be a visual difference between us? If we still have racial differences, it is an easy jump to think that our bodies will look similar to what we have presently but still different and better. Are you assuming a literal interpretation of the figurative/symbolic language of a man using code so that the Roman authorities couldn't understand his message and therefore wouldn't censor his letters to the people in Turkey? We are of the Roman tradition, why would we be able to understand by just a cursory reading? It is apocalyptic literature in the tradition of that of the old testatment. It flies in the face of the Jesus that is presented to us in the Gospel, who shuns the pageantry of the Great White Horse of the Romans (Pilate probably arrived a few days or weeks before Jesus and came in as a conquering hero) for the donkey of a servant. A savior who brings victory through peace and love and tells Peter to put away his sword b/c that is not the type of messiah he was. Why would he then change character completely when we get to Revelation? Is it not possible that Revelation is metaphorical and speaks of the victory over evil in the only terms that the peope reading it could understand - apocalyptic literature was meant to bring hope to the oppressed - how else was John to do it without using this language. Also is it not possible that all of the fire in Revelation is a purifying fire that cleanses the people of their evil so that they too could be redeemed? Tell me, those of you who are parents, at what point would you CONDEMN your child FOREVER, ETERNITY to a lake of fire? If you would NEVER be willing to do that, and would ALWAYS hold out hope of them turning around, why do you assume GOD to be less loving and less hopeful and less full of grace than you? Why would GOD, who can do anything GOD wants to do, want to send someone to be eternally [darn]ed? God does not HAVE to do that - b/c GOD is GOD
May 7, 200719 yr Are you assuming a literal interpretation of the figurative/symbolic language of a man using code so that the Roman authorities couldn't understand his message and therefore wouldn't censor his letters to the people in Turkey? We are of the Roman tradition, why would we be able to understand by just a cursory reading? It is apocalyptic literature in the tradition of that of the old testatment. It flies in the face of the Jesus that is presented to us in the Gospel, who shuns the pageantry of the Great White Horse of the Romans (Pilate probably arrived a few days or weeks before Jesus and came in as a conquering hero) for the donkey of a servant. A savior who brings victory through peace and love and tells Peter to put away his sword b/c that is not the type of messiah he was. Why would he then change character completely when we get to Revelation? Is it not possible that Revelation is metaphorical and speaks of the victory over evil in the only terms that the peope reading it could understand - apocalyptic literature was meant to bring hope to the oppressed - how else was John to do it without using this language. Also is it not possible that all of the fire in Revelation is a purifying fire that cleanses the people of their evil so that they too could be redeemed? Tell me, those of you who are parents, at what point would you CONDEMN your child FOREVER, ETERNITY to a lake of fire? If you would NEVER be willing to do that, and would ALWAYS hold out hope of them turning around, why do you assume GOD to be less loving and less hopeful and less full of grace than you? Why would GOD, who can do anything GOD wants to do, want to send someone to be eternally [darn]ed? God does not HAVE to do that - b/c GOD is GOD I am not talking exclusively about Revelations. Jesus talks about banquets and eating and the like in the Gospels. Jesus is the Jesus that you want him to be, but he is also a Jesus of division. He does bring peace but because of man's reaction to him, he will bring division too. Matthew 10 32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. 34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn " 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw— 36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[e] 37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 40"He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me. 41Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. 42And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward."
May 7, 200719 yr John 14:6. Sin is all around us. God hates Sin. Man has messed up big time. A sinful heart has to repent. There is a pattern that is setforth. There are two ways to choose. Only two. Man has a choice and can learn from scripture the right choice. Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess. Man has a choice. If my child acts wrong there is a pattern, he can choose. He makes choices and when he is wrong he pays. He knows the rules. If my child hasn't heard the rule and messes up I judge fairly. God knows your true heart...1st Samual 16:7
May 7, 200719 yr Author John 14:6. Sin is all around us. God hates Sin. Man has messed up big time. A sinful heart has to repent. There is a pattern that is setforth. There are two ways to choose. Only two. Man has a choice and can learn from scripture the right choice. Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess. Man has a choice. If my child acts wrong there is a pattern, he can choose. He makes choices and when he is wrong he pays. He knows the rules. If my child hasn't heard the rule and messes up I judge fairly. God knows your true heart...1st Samual 16:7 Does your son pay FOREVER? A mistake in 80 years vs eternity?
May 7, 200719 yr On the eating thing and not from Revelations Luke 14 The Parable of the Great Banquet 15When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, "Blessed is the man who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God." I can tell you that there is a mindset out there that makes sense. Adam and Eve's body while a physical body, did not have disease and did not know the ravages of sin. A return to the way that God created Man seems logical. A return to the bodies that Adam and Eve had before sin would mean we would have a physcial body.
May 7, 200719 yr Ace, how do you see these words where Jesus himself indicates that not all will find their way to him. It is words like these from Jesus that to me, indicate that he wants none to suffer but they will of their own accord..... Matthew 24 45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
May 8, 200719 yr Author Ace...I love my son and I forgive him. Do you then have more love than God who, according to everyone on this thread, will throw his creations away to be TORTURED FOREVER. Why would God do this. God is all powerful and can do whatever God wants - this sounds like a monster - does it not? See if I have it correct here . . . "I am lonely . . . I think I will create some companions. I don't want them to be robots so I will give them free will so they can grow and learn and we can enjoy one another. I will put some parameters on their freedom - for their own good - and if they step outside of those parameters I will punish them forever" LATER (the amount of time is debatable) :jump: "Wow a lot of these people can't seem to stay within their boundaries. I will send them an example of how to be like me, and so that I won't have to punish them I will KILL MY SON so that these other creations can stay with me, as long as they know a recieve my Son" LATER (see above) "Wow there are a lot of people who don't know or have rejected my SON, I guess all of that was in vain - oh well, I will torture them forever." Great Story :confused:
May 8, 200719 yr Another story, create all these creatures and they do as you say. And then God says I am going to send my Son to be beaten, humilated and crucified all for nothing since I am going to accept them without them ever showing any appreciation for what my Son did. Great father and story????
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