Another story, create all these creatures and they do as you say. And then God says I am going to send my Son to be beaten, humilated and crucified all for nothing since I am going to accept them without them ever showing any appreciation for what my Son did.

 

Great father and story????

 

So you agree with the story as I layed it out? WOW. . . so essentially I come to accept Jesus only b/c I am afraid of a wrathful, vengeful God - heckbent on pain and torture. We might as well be worshipping Zeus, not a God that preaches about Love and a radical way of of overcoming the evil of the earth.

 

I have not ever (never) advocated the story you put forth, and will never advocate it. You have misread or misunderstood me all the way through here if the story you put forth is what you believe I have put forth. Please re-read my posts carefully and tell me how you reach the conclusion where I say that God would accept everyone without them EVENTUALLY showing appreciation.

So you agree with the story as I layed it out? WOW. . . so essentially I come to accept Jesus only b/c I am afraid of a wrathful, vengeful God - heckbent on pain and torture. We might as well be worshipping Zeus, not a God that preaches about Love and a radical way of of overcoming the evil of the earth.

 

I have not ever (never) advocated the story you put forth, and will never advocate it. You have misread or misunderstood me all the way through here if the story you put forth is what you believe I have put forth. Please re-read my posts carefully and tell me how you reach the conclusion where I say that God would accept everyone without them EVENTUALLY showing appreciation.

On the agreement, only if you are reading my posts the way I am reading yours.

 

I cannot tell you reasons why God chose the plan as He has. Only what I read in Scripture and what he has unveiled about that plan.

 

Some make no sense to me but they are what God has set up.

 

I can't personally imagine sending my son to His death for the sins of others. But that is what God did. Doesn't sending Jesus to the life and torture he had on this planet also seem to be as you described in the first paragraph? But isn't that what happened?

 

God could have easily said, no Jesus you don't have to be crucified, I can do this another way. But he didn't and instead allowed his Son to have a horrible, horrible death. Does that match with the God you are talking about?

On the agreement, only if you are reading my posts the way I am reading yours.

 

I cannot tell you reasons why God chose the plan as He has. Only what I read in Scripture and what he has unveiled about that plan.

 

Some make no sense to me but they are what God has set up.

 

I can't personally imagine sending my son to His death for the sins of others. But that is what God did. Doesn't sending Jesus to the life and torture he had on this planet also seem to be as you described in the first paragraph? But isn't that what happened?

 

God could have easily said, no Jesus you don't have to be crucified, I can do this another way. But he didn't and instead allowed his Son to have a horrible, horrible death. Does that match with the God you are talking about?

 

You will really enjoy this . . .

 

I don't believe the Jesus HAD to die. I think it was part of his living life and showing us the example of how it ought to be. He could have called down angels, but chose to live the non-violent life that resulted in his death. I don't think God demanded his blood.

You will really enjoy this . . .

 

I don't believe the Jesus HAD to die. I think it was part of his living life and showing us the example of how it ought to be. He could have called down angels, but chose to live the non-violent life that resulted in his death. I don't think God demanded his blood.

I don't believe Jesus had to die either. God COULD have chosen any plan to give us a chance at salvation. He chose this plan and Jesus agreed to come and die.

 

So in God's plan, he had to ALLOW His Son to go through the torture that he did. Does that coincide with the peaceful, easy feeling God that you talk about? I think God is perfectly BOTH. When wrath (didn't he create wrath since God is the creation of all things?) is needed and warranted, he is wrathful. When peace and grace are needed, God is those things. God is the perfect balance of all things, to me.

I don't believe Jesus had to die either. God COULD have chosen any plan to give us a chance at salvation. He chose this plan and Jesus agreed to come and die.

 

So in God's plan, he had to ALLOW His Son to go through the torture that he did. Does that coincide with the peaceful, easy feeling God that you talk about? I think God is perfectly BOTH. When wrath (didn't he create wrath since God is the creation of all things?) is needed and warranted, he is wrathful. When peace and grace are needed, God is those things. God is the perfect balance of all things, to me.

 

Isn't Grace ALWAYS needed and doesn't God say "I AM LOVE"?

Do you then have more love than God who, according to everyone on this thread, will throw his creations away to be TORTURED FOREVER. Why would God do this. God is all powerful and can do whatever God wants - this sounds like a monster - does it not?

 

See if I have it correct here . . .

 

"I am lonely . . . I think I will create some companions. I don't want them to be robots so I will give them free will so they can grow and learn and we can enjoy one another. I will put some parameters on their freedom - for their own good - and if they step outside of those parameters I will punish them forever"

 

LATER (the amount of time is debatable) :jump:

 

"Wow a lot of these people can't seem to stay within their boundaries. I will send them an example of how to be like me, and so that I won't have to punish them I will KILL MY SON so that these other creations can stay with me, as long as they know a recieve my Son"

 

LATER (see above)

 

"Wow there are a lot of people who don't know or have rejected my SON, I guess all of that was in vain - oh well, I will torture them forever."

 

Great Story :confused:

 

God created Satan as well...does that go against His love if He indeed condemns him to eternal torment? Or will Satan, like everyone else, eventually get in to heaven? Just curious.

God created Satan as well...does that go against His love if He indeed condemns him to eternal torment? Or will Satan, like everyone else, eventually get in to heaven? Just curious.

 

that depends on your definition of Satan. I certainly believe that evil will be destroyed.

Is this not fun? :dancingpa

that depends on your definition of Satan. I certainly believe that evil will be destroyed.

 

My definition of Satan is that he is an angel that rebelled against God. Thus, he is a created being, created by God.

 

I'm assuming yours is different.

My definition of Satan is that he is an angel that rebelled against God. Thus, he is a created being, created by God.

 

I'm assuming yours is different.

 

I KNOW that evil exists, I just don't know that it is personified.

You will really enjoy this . . .

 

I don't believe the Jesus HAD to die. I think it was part of his living life and showing us the example of how it ought to be. He could have called down angels, but chose to live the non-violent life that resulted in his death. I don't think God demanded his blood.

God's law demands a sin sacrifice. Jesus chose to be that sacrifice for all of us. But its still up to us to accept his sacrifice.

I KNOW that evil exists, I just don't know that it is personified.

Not sure what you mean by personified?

 

When the Bible talks about Satan tempting Jesus, who is this?

Not sure what you mean by personified?

 

When the Bible talks about Satan tempting Jesus, who is this?

 

LBBC is everything you read in the Bible literal. Is it not possible that story is not metaphorical? Does there have to be a person standing there beside Jesus for this to be true. I am tempted all the time, but i don't think "the devil" is walking up beside me - sometime it is my HUMAN nature, or the evil that is around me.

God's law demands a sin sacrifice. Jesus chose to be that sacrifice for all of us. But its still up to us to accept his sacrifice.

 

 

Why does God's law demand a sin sacrifice? Did God not create his law? God can do anything God wants, how can HE be held beholden to a law?

LBBC is everything you read in the Bible literal. Is it not possible that story is not metaphorical? Does there have to be a person standing there beside Jesus for this to be true. I am tempted all the time, but i don't think "the devil" is walking up beside me - sometime it is my HUMAN nature, or the evil that is around me.

 

LBBC, after re-reading this today, my tone was not intended to be as it sounds here. It sounds snooty and I did not/do not mean for it to. Forgive me.