LBBC is everything you read in the Bible literal. Is it not possible that story is not metaphorical? Does there have to be a person standing there beside Jesus for this to be true. I am tempted all the time, but i don't think "the devil" is walking up beside me - sometime it is my HUMAN nature, or the evil that is around me.

First, didn't take it as snooty at all.

 

Second, I think there is a spiritual battle going on everyday, every minute waging around each of us.

 

I think that the Devil is a real being. I think the Satan loves to drag men down and stand as an obstacle between us and God. I think Satan was defeated the weekend that Christ was crucified and arose but the final battle has not been fought while the outcome is already determined. I believe that Satan and Hell will eventually be thrown into the Lake of Fire for all eternity.

 

I think the Devil is a spiritual being as well as could be a physical presence. Same as the angels that appeared to Mary are both.

 

The Bible tells me that the Devil was an angel that sought to be more than an angel and was cast out of Heaven for that. Do you believe angels can be physical beings?

 

I have seen no reason to doubt that.

First, didn't take it as snooty at all.

 

Second, I think there is a spiritual battle going on everyday, every minute waging around each of us.

 

I think that the Devil is a real being. I think the Satan loves to drag men down and stand as an obstacle between us and God. I think Satan was defeated the weekend that Christ was crucified and arose but the final battle has not been fought while the outcome is already determined. I believe that Satan and Hell will eventually be thrown into the Lake of Fire for all eternity.

 

I think the Devil is a spiritual being as well as could be a physical presence. Same as the angels that appeared to Mary are both.

 

The Bible tells me that the Devil was an angel that sought to be more than an angel and was cast out of Heaven for that. Do you believe angels can be physical beings?

 

I have seen no reason to doubt that.

 

I see no reason to think that any of that is not true, but I don't think I HAVE to believe it in that way for my salvation/relation with God to be valid.

Why does God's law demand a sin sacrifice? Did God not create his law? God can do anything God wants, how can HE be held beholden to a law?

You make my point about a merciless God. He could do anything he wanted to create eternal salvation but allowed His Son to be crucified in that system. He can be merciless and wrathful as well as loving and peace.

 

If you believe in the God of the Bible, you must see this. Too many incidents that show both sides of him.

I see no reason to think that any of that is not true, but I don't think I HAVE to believe it in that way for my salvation/relation with God to be valid.

I am not sure what your point is, here.

 

I think it is dangerous, as some profess to believe, that there is no Satan nor no Hell. God is all-inclusive and everyone is going to make it in.

 

That gives people an excuse in their mind to just go about their lives never paying in mind to God or Christ.

I am not sure what your point is, here.

 

I think it is dangerous, as some profess to believe, that there is no Satan nor no Hell. God is all-inclusive and everyone is going to make it in.

 

That gives people an excuse in their mind to just go about their lives never paying in mind to God or Christ.

 

If when I die, and I have not made some effort to seek out God and have only lived a humanistic life I believe that Iwill be separated from God and all that God is (love, peace, joy) that means that my existence will be one of hate, turmoil, sorrow - that can be awful, probably more so than hell itself (at least as we think we know it to be described).

 

My son loves communion (not church stuff, but being around people) when he misbehaves I have two choices, I can spank him, or I can send him to his room (no electronic devices there or anything) - he would prefer the spanking b/c he HATES the separation. Not only that, when he returns from his room we talk about why the separation took place and discuss that it was meant as a redemptive move to restore his right relationship with me and his mother (a most probably his little sister) - but he is not sent there Forever.

 

I believe, that if you REJECT Jesus, the son of God, in this life, that there will be separation from God in the next, however, I simply don't believe - Given the nature of God that has been revealed to me in the New Testament through the life of Jesus - that God will simply cast them away and forget about it, I think God will continue to work for redemption, even in the next life. B/c it is God's will that all will be saved, "in their own turn".

.

 

I believe, that if you REJECT Jesus, the son of God, in this life, that there will be separation from God in the next, however, I simply don't believe - Given the nature of God that has been revealed to me in the New Testament through the life of Jesus - that God will simply cast them away and forget about it, I think God will continue to work for redemption, even in the next life. B/c it is God's will that all will be saved, "in their own turn".

I think it is a huge stretch to believe this in any of the Scriptures that you have brought forth. Especially when there are Scriptures that specifically contradict this line of thinking.

I think it is a huge stretch to believe this in any of the Scriptures that you have brought forth. Especially when there are Scriptures that specifically contradict this line of thinking.

 

I don't think anything specifically contradicts and in 1 Peter, I go back again that he goes to hell and preaches to those who had died earlier.

 

The scripture also says the everyone will be saved "each in his own turn".

 

John 3:17, I come not to condemn the WORLD, but that the WORLD through me might be saved.

 

All kinds of scripture talk about it.

My concern is that others may think they will have a 2nd chance in another life when that is not clear.

 

When it IS CLEAR what they can do in this life to avoid that.

 

A good number would unfortunately take the position, I am just going to have fun in this life and then make up for it later. Since there is minimal to no consequences for it.

 

I think that is a dangerous mindset to develop when it is not clear that will happen.

Ace, check out Luke 21. Its long but Jesus talks about how things will go. His disciples were having some problems.

 

I'm not going to give you a bunch of verses to research, you are a smart fellow and you are entitled to your belief system.

 

I will say you and I cannot question why God does or did what he did, there is a format, a pattern...Romans chapter 10. Jesus lived 33 years on earth. I lived a few more, he died and I will too. Its a great feeling to know that I will be with him. Its my job to share his story so I can take as many folks with me as posible.

 

You have "Freewill" to share your thoughts. Are you trying to change our thoughts to be like yours? What is your goal? Just curious.

Ace, check out Luke 21. Its long but Jesus talks about how things will go. His disciples were having some problems.

 

I'm not going to give you a bunch of verses to research, you are a smart fellow and you are entitled to your belief system.

 

I will say you and I cannot question why God does or did what he did, there is a format, a pattern...Romans chapter 10. Jesus lived 33 years on earth. I lived a few more, he died and I will too. Its a great feeling to know that I will be with him. Its my job to share his story so I can take as many folks with me as posible.

 

You have "Freewill" to share your thoughts. Are you trying to change our thoughts to be like yours? What is your goal? Just curious.

 

My goal is to generate discussion so that I can mull new ideas around in my brain. I am a much different Christian now than I was even 10 years ago - I am an "emerging" Christian and I don't want to be stagnant in my thought. I want to see more clearly each day (although according to Paul I will always "see dimly"). I have no desire to change anyone's mind but I think it is always positive to talk about what you see/hear/and believe about the Gospel.

 

I too think it is my job to share Christ's story and to talk about my relationship with him - my tactic may just be a little different. I want people to come to know Christ and love him and respond to him out of this loving relationship not because they are afraid of going to hell. Just like I would never want my adult/enlightened child to respond to me out of fear, but to respond to me out of love. The same is true for my spouse. I want her to do and not do things out of love for me not out of fear of me. I think that is what Christ wants - and American/Western religion of the past 27-30 years has been one of fear and condemnation not a story of love and Grace.

 

The conservative takeover of the SBC and the unholy marriage of Ralph Reed/Pat Robertson/Jerry Falwell to the government has skewed the message of Jesus who talks about Blessed are the poor, merciful, the peacemaker, the mournful, the MEEK, the pure in heart, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. The Jesus of Matthew 5:38 ff is not the Jesus put forth by those Christians that the world see everyday. I am much more in line with Jim Wallis at http://www.sojo.net.

 

BTW someone earlier accused me of discounting 2000 years of orthodoxy, not so. My father in law, as I have said before was a professor at Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville before Al Mohler. He was a professor of preaching and has writting several books on the preaching styles of several of the new testament authors, and of Jesus. He preaches of Jesus of love and mercy and forgiveness that he learned about at SBS. The fact is, the Jesus I talk about (of course not exactly all of it) is the Jesus that was taught at SBS throughout its history, until the conservative takeover in the late 70s and early 80s. It was even taught there up into the 90s when all of the old professors were run out of town. That teaching just never made its way to the Sunday School teachers and then to the rest of the Lay People.

Ace, I can't figure you out man. In earlier post you say things and question God and using the word "Monster", but you want to share Jesus with people. What would your father-In-law say about you going there?

 

I don't understand your posts, and when I see things I don't get from you...well I easy to be confused.

Again where does a Homosexual fit in today's world with using scripture? I asked this beofre and you have avoided this question that was brought up by you.

 

This is your thread talking about your Theology and we have responded to your questions and statements. If you rather for me to end I'll be glad to. I've mentioned earlier that you seem like a nice person.

Ace, I can't figure you out man. In earlier post you say things and question God and using the word "Monster", but you want to share Jesus with people. What would your father-In-law say about you going there?

 

I don't understand your posts, and when I see things I don't get from you...well I easy to be confused.

Again where does a Homosexual fit in today's world with using scripture? I asked this beofre and you have avoided this question that was brought up by you.

 

This is your thread talking about your Theology and we have responded to your questions and statements. If you rather for me to end I'll be glad to. I've mentioned earlier that you seem like a nice person.

 

No desire for you to end.

 

I used the word MONSTER in a description of God that I do not believe to be true, and if I had to believe that to be a Christian, I don't know that I would. I don't believe God to be a monster, but I think that is the picture that is put before the world most of the time, and it is not a picture that would draw people to Jesus.

 

I think we need to spend more time putting the God of the Gospel before people - 2 Greatest Commandments

Love God with All your Heart Soul and Strength

Love your neighbor as yourself

All others hang on these

 

I think we need to put the God of "love your enemies" on the front line, the God of turn the other cheek, the God of Peter put away your sword. the God of forgive those who sin against you 7 x 70 - forever!!! (He wants us to forgive forever, but he will not?)

 

But we continue to put a God on the front pages of our newspaper and on our televisions that gives us Katrina b/c of our hateful ways, or 9/11 because of the gays in the country and that is such crap.

 

Why would any homosexual who sees the way that some of our best known evangelist talk about them ever darken the door of the church? Philip Yancey in his book "What's So Amazing About Grace." tells the story of a drug ridden prostitute that someone is interviewing and she is talking about her life and how much pain and sorrow she has endured. The interviewer asks, "have you ever thought about church?" She responds, "I feel bad enough about myself already, why would I go there?" The church needs to be a place people go for safety and security not to be condemned by the members. Jesus said I didn't come for those who were well, I come for those who are sick and need the doctor. We get to be so self righteous in our condemning of sin that we forget that we all are sinners.

 

Do you think that is the image of God that Jesus tried to portray - NO WAY

 

Where do homosexuals fit in . . . they are my neighbor. I have ignored it, b/c Jesus did - don't remember him saying one word about it. Why are you so anxious to call some out on it - is Jesus not more condemning of those who are greedy - Greed is taking more than you need, and we celebrate CAPITALISTS in this country and we honor people who have more than they need, but we condemn homosexuals, a group Jesus never mentioned. (There are suggestions that Paul references it so much b/c a lot of his audience was Hellenistic and they had a habit of practicing pedophilia - Male Teachers - and their students and that this is the bigger target of Paul and not consenting adults who are caused to fornicate b/c of our laws that don't allow them to marry.)

 

We put down the poor and say they are lazy when Jesus says to lift them up. "A brother asks for your coat, give him your shirt too." It does not say to make sure that he NEEDS it, it says, if he asks - Give it to him.

 

We condemn illegal immigrants (see my other thread) when the Bible says to love them.

 

Jesus' teachings are so anti-capitalism but we pay no attention to it. It is all about wealth redistribution (parable of the workers who come late to the fields) and all About Grace and we preach against Homosexuals, Abortion, Prayer in School, the Hanging of the 10 Commandments, and we lash out at everyone's sin so as not to have to pay attention to our own and Jesus says

 

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone..."

 

LBBC says I am reckless in thinking that someone might have a second chance in the next life and that they will live willy-nilly in this one, but my beleif is that MY SALVATION is not so much about the next life, but about this one - "I came so that you could have LIFE and have it more ABUNDANTLY" and about bringing God's Kingdom to earth as we now live in it - "Thy Kingdom COME, thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven.

 

BTW, my father in law would be very proud I think. I spew a lot of his words from my mouth. One of the final straws in him leaving the seminary was for being called on the carpet for talking about the maternal instincts of God during Chapel. That was too big of a God for the new seminary leadership - their God was much smaller

 

It is not my job to convict people of their sin, the Holy Spirit does that, and the Holy Spirit can only do that when someone has been introduced to the Love of Jesus. We need to preach about the Life/Love of Christ as much as the death/sacrifice - BUT WE PREACH ABOUT SIN AND THAT IS SO SAD.

Simple question, did not Jesus preach about love and sin? Did he not preach about both?

 

And a comment you made earlier, if any of us are the same Christians we were 10 years ago, I think we need to personally evaluate our faith. I think you continue to grow and mature as Christians. The things I understand and believed when I was a young Christian, 1 year in my faith but 33 years on this planet, is nowhere near my understanding and belief today as a more mature (but never fully mature) Christian of 9 years and 41 years on the planet.

Simple question, did not Jesus preach about love and sin? Did he not preach about both?

 

And a comment you made earlier, if any of us are the same Christians we were 10 years ago, I think we need to personally evaluate our faith. I think you continue to grow and mature as Christians. The things I understand and believed when I was a young Christian, 1 year in my faith but 33 years on this planet, is nowhere near my understanding and belief today as a more mature (but never fully mature) Christian of 9 years and 41 years on the planet.

 

You know, I think he mentioned sin, but I think the bulk of his preaching was about being in a right relationship, there were no Falwellian or Robertsonian tirades about the evil of . . . whatever.

 

His strongest language was reserved for the Self-righteous "you brood of vipers" and for those who thought they were living right but not taking care of the poor - the rich young ruler.

 

Even with the woman at the well it was not a condemning full of fear conversation, it was "look what i have to offer . . . you don't need that other stuff." then he told her to go sin no more, not b/c she should be afraid of hell, he never even mentioned it, but b/c he offered her something better than the sin.

 

our preaching is usually, YOU NEED TO GET RID OF THAT SIN, THEN GET RIGHT WITH GOD.

 

When it should be "God loves you and wants an intimate relationship with you." then once they are in the intimate relationship God can take care of the sin.

You know, I think he mentioned sin, but I think the bulk of his preaching was about being in a right relationship, there were no Falwellian or Robertsonian tirades about the evil of . . . whatever.

 

His strongest language was reserved for the Self-righteous "you brood of vipers" and for those who thought they were living right but not taking care of the poor - the rich young ruler.

 

Even with the woman at the well it was not a condemning full of fear conversation, it was "look what i have to offer . . . you don't need that other stuff." then he told her to go sin no more, not b/c she should be afraid of hell, he never even mentioned it, but b/c he offered her something better than the sin.

 

our preaching is usually, YOU NEED TO GET RID OF THAT SIN, THEN GET RIGHT WITH GOD.

 

When it should be "God loves you and wants an intimate relationship with you." then once they are in the intimate relationship God can take care of the sin.

So driving at the money-changers at the temple by WHIPPING them is not a strong tirade?

 

I would think his strongest language was for Peter who he called Satan.

 

I disagree with the preaching. My church's preaching is that Jesus will meet you where you are and help you grow in your Christian life by pruning those things that you will see stands in the way of your relationship with God and Christ.

 

Yes, God can take care of the sin but that does not give us free reign to sin as much as we like 'cause God will take care of it. Sounds too much like the rural politicians' son who figures he can break as many laws as he wishes cause ma politician will take care of it.