March 31, 200719 yr Let me throw out another theory for the sake of discussion. Is it possible that Smith survived as long as he did at UK because he is black? I have heard that opinion stated more than one time and in various parts of the Commonwealth. I think the fact of the matter is that there is a lot of prejudice in this world and that it goes in all directions. However, prejudice is not to be equated with racism. While racism is to be shunned, prejudice (ie: prejudging a matter) may merely be loyalty or a latent suspicion/dislike for anything that is different from what we are use to experiencing. I would suggest that all are prejudiced but only a small minority, black and white, is actually racist. I also suggest that it will never change because it is natural for everyone to align with his/her "comfort zone". So, let me be first in admitting that I have many prejudices. However, in no way am I a racist. By the way, Coach Rupp was forced to retire because the mandatory retirement age for a state empolyee was 70. Coach Rupp was 70. Nonetheless, it is folly for any of you to compare any UK basketball coach with Coach Rupp.
March 31, 200719 yr Let me throw out another theory for the sake of discussion. Is it possible that Smith survived as long as he did at UK because he is black? I have heard that opinion stated more than one time and in various parts of the Commonwealth. I think the reason He survived has long as he did is because he had winning % of over 700% and he averaged over 26 wins a season.And if he had chosen to He would still be the coach.Joe B. Hall was White and he was never fired. Joe B Halls Record Season Won Lost Rank Notes 1972-73 20 8 17th by AP and 15th by UPI Joe B. Hall's First Season 1973-74 13 13 - Joe B. Hall's Worst Season 1974-75 26 5 2nd by AP and 4th by UPI - 1975-76 20 10 - - 1976-77 26 4 3rd by AP and 5th by UPI - 1977-78 30 2 1st by AP and 1st by UPI - 1978-79 19 12 - - 1979-80 29 6 4th by AP and 3rd by UPI - 1980-81 22 6 8th by AP and 8th by UPI - 1981-82 22 8 15th by AP - 1982-83 23 8 12th by AP and 10th by UPI and 6th by CNN/USA Today - 1983-84 29 5 3rd by AP and 3rd by UPI and 3rd by CNN/USA Today - 1984-85 18 13 24th by CNN/USA Today Joe B. Hall's Final Season
March 31, 200719 yr Let me throw out another theory for the sake of discussion. Is it possible that Smith survived as long as he did at UK because he is black? I have heard that opinion stated more than one time and in various parts of the Commonwealth. I think the fact of the matter is that there is a lot of prejudice in this world and that it goes in all directions. However, prejudice is not to be equated with racism. While racism is to be shunned, prejudice (ie: prejudging a matter) may merely be loyalty or a latent suspicion/dislike for anything that is different from what we are use to experiencing. I would suggest that all are prejudiced but only a small minority, black and white, is actually racist. I also suggest that it will never change because it is natural for everyone to align with his/her "comfort zone". So, let me be first in admitting that I have many prejudices. However, in no way am I a racist. By the way, Coach Rupp was forced to retire because the mandatory retirement age for a state empolyee was 70. Coach Rupp was 70. Nonetheless, it is folly for any of you to compare any UK basketball coach with Coach Rupp. :thumb: Well said, and as I said before. I think if Tubby would have made it to a final four in 03 or in 05, he wouldn't have as many critics. Sure there would be some, but there's always going to be critics no matter who you are. A lot of people who really liked Tubby are going to criticize our next coah no matter what accomplishments he makes, and that's fair. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But to say that Kentucky is the only state in America with "unrealistic, stupid fans" is like saying that Mars is the only other planet in the solar system. It's ridiculous.
March 31, 200719 yr Let me throw out another theory for the sake of discussion. Is it possible that Smith survived as long as he did at UK because he is black? I have heard that opinion stated more than one time and in various parts of the Commonwealth. I think the reason He survived has long as he did is because he had winning % of over 700% and he averaged over 26 wins a season.And if he had chosen to He would still be the coach.Joe B. Hall was White and he was never fired. Joe B Halls Record Season Won Lost Rank Notes 1972-73 20 8 17th by AP and 15th by UPI Joe B. Hall's First Season 1973-74 13 13 - Joe B. Hall's Worst Season 1974-75 26 5 2nd by AP and 4th by UPI - 1975-76 20 10 - - 1976-77 26 4 3rd by AP and 5th by UPI - 1977-78 30 2 1st by AP and 1st by UPI - 1978-79 19 12 - - 1979-80 29 6 4th by AP and 3rd by UPI - 1980-81 22 6 8th by AP and 8th by UPI - 1981-82 22 8 15th by AP - 1982-83 23 8 12th by AP and 10th by UPI and 6th by CNN/USA Today - 1983-84 29 5 3rd by AP and 3rd by UPI and 3rd by CNN/USA Today - 1984-85 18 13 24th by CNN/USA Today Joe B. Hall's Final Season Tubby was not fired!! He quit!! Hall was also not a fan favorite, one reason was HIS style of play
March 31, 200719 yr Tubby was not fired!! He quit!! Hall was also not a fan favorite, one reason was HIS style of play I never said He was Fired!:confused:
March 31, 200719 yr Let me throw out another theory for the sake of discussion. Is it possible that Smith survived as long as he did at UK because he is black? I have heard that opinion stated more than one time and in various parts of the Commonwealth. I think the reason He survived has long as he did is because he had winning % of over 700% and he averaged over 26 wins a season.And if he had chosen to He would still be the coach.Joe B. Hall was White and he was never fired. Joe B Halls Record Season Won Lost Rank Notes 1972-73 20 8 17th by AP and 15th by UPI Joe B. Hall's First Season 1973-74 13 13 - Joe B. Hall's Worst Season 1974-75 26 5 2nd by AP and 4th by UPI - 1975-76 20 10 - - 1976-77 26 4 3rd by AP and 5th by UPI - 1977-78 30 2 1st by AP and 1st by UPI - 1978-79 19 12 - - 1979-80 29 6 4th by AP and 3rd by UPI - 1980-81 22 6 8th by AP and 8th by UPI - 1981-82 22 8 15th by AP - 1982-83 23 8 12th by AP and 10th by UPI and 6th by CNN/USA Today - 1983-84 29 5 3rd by AP and 3rd by UPI and 3rd by CNN/USA Today - 1984-85 18 13 24th by CNN/USA Today Joe B. Hall's Final Season No mention of tournament success or SEC success with these #s. I believe one of the most important issues with the recent teams is somewhat mediocrity in the SEC. Most say UK fans expectations are unrealistic. I don't think it should be to unrealistic to expect the Cats to be in the hunt for SEC titles year in and year out. Remember Ky is a basketball power in a football conference.
April 1, 200719 yr No mention of tournament success or SEC success with these #s. I believe one of the most important issues with the recent teams is somewhat mediocrity in the SEC. Most say UK fans expectations are unrealistic. I don't think it should be to unrealistic to expect the Cats to be in the hunt for SEC titles year in and year out. Remember Ky is a basketball power in a football conference. Unless you just starting watching Ky Basketball two years ago they Have been very good in the sec with Tubby.a perfect 16-0 regular season conference record in 2003.Five SEC regular season championships 1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2005 and five SEC Tournament titles 1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2004. Six Sweet Sixteen finishes and three Elite Eight finishes 1999, 2003, 2005.He totaled 100 wins quicker than any other Wildcat coach except Hall of Famer Adolph Rupp! I Agree with you about tournament Success. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubby_Smith
April 1, 200719 yr Unless you just starting watching Ky Basketball two years ago they Have been very good in the sec with Tubby.a perfect 16-0 regular season conference record in 2003.Five SEC regular season championships 1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2005 and five SEC Tournament titles 1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2004. Six Sweet Sixteen finishes and three Elite Eight finishes 1999, 2003, 2005.He totaled 100 wins quicker than any other Wildcat coach except Hall of Famer Adolph Rupp! I Agree with you about tournament Success. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubby_Smith Believe when I say I am NOT a tber. I was sorry to see him go. I thought with a change in staff and a couple of top recruits he was a season away from having the Cats back in the spotlight. I would have like to have seen Halls success in the Ncaa tourneyin those stats. I imagine he dominated the SEC. Remember, the fan favorite for taking over for the "Baron" was not Hall. That would have been coach Gale Catlett. Can you imagine how that would have played out??
April 1, 200719 yr Let me throw out another theory for the sake of discussion. Is it possible that Smith survived as long as he did at UK because he is black? I have heard that opinion stated more than one time and in various parts of the Commonwealth. I think the reason He survived has long as he did is because he had winning % of over 700% and he averaged over 26 wins a season.And if he had chosen to He would still be the coach.Joe B. Hall was White and he was never fired. Joe B Halls Record Season Won Lost Rank Notes 1972-73 20 8 17th by AP and 15th by UPI Joe B. Hall's First Season 1973-74 13 13 - Joe B. Hall's Worst Season 1974-75 26 5 2nd by AP and 4th by UPI - 1975-76 20 10 - - 1976-77 26 4 3rd by AP and 5th by UPI - 1977-78 30 2 1st by AP and 1st by UPI - 1978-79 19 12 - - 1979-80 29 6 4th by AP and 3rd by UPI - 1980-81 22 6 8th by AP and 8th by UPI - 1981-82 22 8 15th by AP - 1982-83 23 8 12th by AP and 10th by UPI and 6th by CNN/USA Today - 1983-84 29 5 3rd by AP and 3rd by UPI and 3rd by CNN/USA Today - 1984-85 18 13 24th by CNN/USA Today Joe B. Hall's Final Season Looking at it a second time. Are you saying that since Hall was not fired that means the chances of Tubby being fired were slim? Because he had a better overall record. I read the post to quickly.
April 1, 200719 yr Believe when I say I am NOT a tber. I was sorry to see him go. I thought with a change in staff and a couple of top recruits he was a season away from having the Cats back in the spotlight. I would have like to have seen Halls success in the Ncaa tourneyin those stats. I imagine he dominated the SEC. Remember, the fan favorite for taking over for the "Baron" was not Hall. That would have been coach Gale Catlett. Can you imagine how that would have played out?? Tubby 5 SEC regular season titles: 5 SEC Tournament titles Hall 8 SEC regular season titles : 1 SEC Tournament title Hall 1 for 6 in SEC championship games
April 1, 200719 yr Tubby 5 SEC regular season titles: 5 SEC Tournament titles Hall 8 SEC regular season titles : 1 SEC Tournament title Hall 1 for 6 in SEC championship games Also Coach Hall had Three more Years than Tubby.
April 1, 200719 yr Looking at it a second time. Are you saying that since Hall was not fired that means the chances of Tubby being fired were slim? Because he had a better overall record. I read the post to quickly. What Im saying is some people are saying if Tubby had been White he would have already been fired,and Joe B is white,He retired He was not Fired.
April 1, 200719 yr Hall was in the final four three times and had a national title and runner up as well. UK also won the NIT under Hall at a time when the NIT was a more competitive tournament than it is now. I will maintain that Hall was more successful at UK than Tubby was overall. Hall also got better recruits and was able to latch onto the best players in the state consistently as well; Minnifield, Turpin, Hurt, Lee, Beal, May, Givens and Cowan to name a few. And Hall was treated at least as critical as Tubby was by the fans. I can remember very well that 78 team that won and it was like no matter how much they won by it was not enough. People were critical about his offense and how he could never match up with the coach he followed, does any of this sound familar? Tubby was not the first coach to be stuck with tough expecations and he won't be the last.
April 1, 200719 yr Hall was in the final four three times and had a national title and runner up as well. UK also won the NIT under Hall at a time when the NIT was a more competitive tournament than it is now. I will maintain that Hall was more successful at UK than Tubby was overall. Hall also got better recruits and was able to latch onto the best players in the state consistently as well; Minnifield, Turpin, Hurt, Lee, Beal, May, Givens and Cowan to name a few. And Hall was treated at least as critical as Tubby was by the fans. I can remember very well that 78 team that won and it was like no matter how much they won by it was not enough. People were critical about his offense and how he could never match up with the coach he followed, does any of this sound familar? Tubby was not the first coach to be stuck with tough expecations and he won't be the last.Hall may have been the best recruiter ever at UK. He may not have always been able to do much with what he recruited , but he was indeed able to get them there.
April 1, 200719 yr Hall may have been the best recruiter ever at UK. He may not have always been able to do much with what he recruited , but he was indeed able to get them there. Yes, those were the days at least as far as recruiting went. I remember the class he signed in 82 included Mr. Basketball from Georgia, Kentucky and Indiana. Wow. He had a great eye for talent but you are right, he did not always get the best out of them.
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