I wanted to point out some things about UK's basketball history.

 

National championships

They have won 7 national championships but that is built upon two 3-4 year runs. They won in 1948, 49, 51 and 96 and 98. FIVE of the seven came in 7 years. The other approximately 50 years accounted for TWO national championships. It seems winning multiple national championships even for UK is a very hard thing to do.

 

 

Final 4 appearances

Final 4 appearances total 13. Six in that 7 year span I mentioned above. The other 50 years account for a total of 7.

 

 

Elite 8 appearances or regional finalists.

Rupp had 13 but that is misleading, a little, because you only had to win one game to get to the regional final. But that might be balanced out by the field was limited and if you didn't win the SEC you didn't go.

 

It seems some expansion occurred in 1975 through 1985 as they had to play 3 games to get into the regional final and KY had a couple years they played no 1st round game but played a 2nd round game. Made 5 Elite 8 or RF appearances.

 

I believe the NCAA tournament, reading this website http://www.ukathletics.com/doc_lib/mbb_history_ncaatourney.pdf, went to 64 teams in 1985. 10 times they have made the Elite 8 in this format.

Pitino 5 times, Tubby 4 times.

 

Sutton went once. Hall went 5.

 

So 28 times they made it into the regional finalists game. Tubby has been 4 times.

 

So, looking at the coaches legacies....

 

Rupp 4 national championships with only one occurring in the last 21 years of his coaching tenure. Final 4's, ONLY six of them in his 42 years at UK. 3 of them OUTSIDE the great run he had in 48-51. That would be 42 years of coaching and taking that one run out, 3 Final 4 appearances in 38 years. And 13 Elite 8 appearances.

 

Hall had a national championship, 3 Final 4 appearances and 5 Elite 8 appearances.

 

Sutton had 0 national championships, 0 Final 4 appearances and 1 Elite 8 appearances.

 

Pitino had 1 national championship, 3 Final 4 appearances (take that one great run out and that is 1 Final 4 appearance) and 5 Elite 8 appearances.

 

Tubby has 1 national championship, 1 Final 4 appearance and 4 Elite 8 appearances.

 

So, it seems while UK does have a great basketball history and the best in the NCAA, the unrealistic expectations of UK fans is built on a 7-year span. Four of those years in 48-51 and 3 in 96-98.

 

Spans that are the 2nd best in collegiate basketball history (48-51) and in the top 5 in collegiate basketball history (96-98).

 

Take those fantastic runs out and you have a more realistic view of what should be the expectations of UK basketball.

 

In the 75 years since Rupp took over and taking out those two runs, you have 2 national championships, 7 Final 4 appearances and 22 Elite 8 appearances in 68 years.

 

Or a rate of a national championship every 34 years, Final 4 appearance every 9 1/2 years, and an Elite 8 appearance every 3 years.

 

With a run for the ages every 45-50 years as happened in 47-51 and 96-98.

Very nice, LBBC. :thumb:

Excellent post. Very good indeed.

So in a nutshell, your point is that fans shouldn't be so critical of the current Cats because the Cats weren't all that great to begin with. I guess they had me fooled all those years. I aways thought UK was the cream of the crop.

In the SEC yes.

What would the UCLA people say? You won all of your titles (except 1) in one "run," so don't expect to win anymore. I can't see the folks in Westwood being content with that; look at their coaching history post-Wooden and you'll see how they felt about a lack of success.

 

You also discredit Pitino by saying his success was in one run. Pitino was only eligible for the tournament from 1992-97, six years. Three times he was final four bound and twice they lost in the final eight. 83% of his eligible teams went to the elite eight or better. I can't see that on Coach Smith's resume.

 

By the way, ladiesbbcoach, I always enjoy your posts. You're insightful and even tempered, which is a good thing. But I have to disagree with you on this.

What would the UCLA people say? You won all of your titles (except 1) in one "run," so don't expect to win anymore. I can't see the folks in Westwood being content with that; look at their coaching history post-Wooden and you'll see how they felt about a lack of success.

 

You also discredit Pitino by saying his success was in one run. Pitino was only eligible for the tournament from 1992-97, six years. Three times he was final four bound and twice they lost in the final eight. 83% of his eligible teams went to the elite eight or better. I can't see that on Coach Smith's resume.

 

By the way, ladiesbbcoach, I always enjoy your posts. You're insightful and even tempered, which is a good thing. But I have to disagree with you on this.

How do you disagree with the results? This is the actuall results and not my opinion. Rupp won 2 titles outside of a 4 run period. That is fact. 5 of UK's 7 national championships occurred in a 4 year run and a 3 year run. It is NOT like UK is winning national championships every 10 years (70 years divided by 7 national championships). That is/has/was not occurring. Rather they piled up 5 and then spent the other 63 years getting two. It seems rather we can expect one every 12-15 years and then about every 40-50 years have a run that is 2 of 3 or 3 of 4. That is more realistic than expecting one every 10 years.

 

I am not discrediting Pitino's record at all. I am looking at UK in general and not one particular coach.

So in a nutshell, your point is that fans shouldn't be so critical of the current Cats because the Cats weren't all that great to begin with. I guess they had me fooled all those years. I aways thought UK was the cream of the crop.

My point is looking at what your expectations are of UK and how does that fit with the reality of what the GREATEST COLLEGE BASKETBALL PROGRAM has accomplished. I pointed out in another thread, that UK has won 30 games 11 times which is more than ANY other program. With that thought, one could make the assumption that KY should be accomplishing this once every 7 years since Rupp took over.

 

But if you look back to my original premise, 4 of those 11 times occurred in 47, 48, 49 and 51. Rupp NEVER WON 30 GAMES AGAIN AFTER THAT RUN. Was he a failure because he never was able to duplicate this success again? Today's mindset with Tubby, I fear the answer would be a resounding YES because Tubby is not duplicating a once in a 50 year period success of 96-98. Something Rupp could not do either.

 

BTW, two of the other 11 times was in 96 and 98. So SIX of the 11 times that KY has won 30 games came in those two runs. In the other 63 years, UK has won 30 games or more only 5 times or once every 12-13 years. Tubby by the way has done it twice.

Great post, LBBC. Well done.

Let me reiterate that in no way is this meant to degrade UK's history. It IS the top collegiate basketball program in the NCAA. My point is to analyze and get a real view on WHY it IS the top collegiate basketball program.

 

My analyzing suggests that two once in a lifetime runs and then some really good years are the basis of that. It is NOT a continual and consistent of repeating the success of 47-51 or 96-98 as it seems like the expectations of some fans are. UK's own history suggests that what Tubby is doing fits right in line with the UK history.

 

That said, I AM DISAPPOINTED IN THE LAST TWO SEASONS.

My point is looking at what your expectations are of UK and how does that fit with the reality of what the GREATEST COLLEGE BASKETBALL PROGRAM has accomplished. I pointed out in another thread, that UK has won 30 games 11 times which is more than ANY other program. With that thought, one could make the assumption that KY should be accomplishing this once every 7 years since Rupp took over.

 

But if you look back to my original premise, 4 of those 11 times occurred in 47, 48, 49 and 51. Rupp NEVER WON 30 GAMES AGAIN AFTER THAT RUN. Was he a failure because he never was able to duplicate this success again? Today's mindset with Tubby, I fear the answer would be a resounding YES because Tubby is not duplicating a once in a 50 year period success of 96-98. Something Rupp could not do either.

 

BTW, two of the other 11 times was in 96 and 98. So SIX of the 11 times that KY has won 30 games came in those two runs. In the other 63 years, UK has won 30 games or more only 5 times or once every 12-13 years. Tubby by the way has done it twice.

First, in your other post you said you weren't "discrediting Pitino" yet he is the only coach that you offer a qualifier concerning his results. The only qualifier I would offer about Rick is that he was able to bring UK back from a scandal not of his making. I would also qualify Tubby's title by saying that he probably stepped into one of the greatest situations in NCAA history.

Concerning Rupps titles 47-51, he benefited from playing in conference that he probably could have won if he rested his starters until the tournament. Most of the SEC teams in those days were pretty pitiful.

I guess my point is, if you believe that today's times are more of the same, then the old days weren't as impressive as we once thought.

First, in your other post you said you weren't "discrediting Pitino" yet he is the only coach that you offer a qualifier concerning his results. The only qualifier I would offer about Rick is that he was able to bring UK back from a scandal not of his making. I would also qualify Tubby's title by saying that he probably stepped into one of the greatest situations in NCAA history.

Concerning Rupps titles 47-51, he benefited from playing in conference that he probably could have won if he rested his starters until the tournament. Most of the SEC teams in those days were pretty pitiful.

I guess my point is, if you believe that today's times are more of the same, then the old days weren't as impressive as we once thought.

 

Or one of the worst, depending on how you look at it- not a place to go but down some. No one could keep up with the end of Pitino's tenure. He may very well be the greatest coach in UK history. But comparing what Tubby is doing to him may not be fair either. I don't think that UK fans shouldn't be upset with what may be a disappointing year, but I don't and never have thought UK fans were as knowledgable as it was always pointed out they were.

At this point I could care less who coaches at UK, If it is Tubby so be it.

But how can UK get top recuites if they cant even crack the top 25 poll.

And for what its worth I have seen Patterson play several times and he is not an impact player(solid 4 yr.college player) not 2 yrs. and off to NBA.

Or one of the worst, depending on how you look at it- not a place to go but down some. No one could keep up with the end of Pitino's tenure. He may very well be the greatest coach in UK history. But comparing what Tubby is doing to him may not be fair either. I don't think that UK fans shouldn't be upset with what may be a disappointing year, but I don't and never have thought UK fans were as knowledgable as it was always pointed out they were.

Knowledgable and a great majority of UK fans is an oxymoron. Dedicated? Yes. Unrealistic? YES. Knowledgable? A few but not many.

Knowledgable and a great majority of UK fans is an oxymoron. Dedicated? Yes. Unrealistic? YES. Knowledgable? A few but not many.

 

Blanket Statement Alert! Blanket Statement Alert! Be careful.