Let me reiterate that in no way is this meant to degrade UK's history. It IS the top collegiate basketball program in the NCAA. My point is to analyze and get a real view on WHY it IS the top collegiate basketball program.

 

My analyzing suggests that two once in a lifetime runs and then some really good years are the basis of that. It is NOT a continual and consistent of repeating the success of 47-51 or 96-98 as it seems like the expectations of some fans are. UK's own history suggests that what Tubby is doing fits right in line with the UK history.

 

That said, I AM DISAPPOINTED IN THE LAST TWO SEASONS.

:thumb: :thumb: Great post lbbc and some GREAT info on your thread, thanks. Some on here think that just bc someone supports Tubby means that they are satisfied with the last couple of seasons. I for one am not, I am just not ready to "ditch" the coach over it. OTS's time may have come, I don't know (only OTS, his family and/or the UK admin knows that) but I will stand behind him untill the day he leaves and support whoever the next coach is whenever that may be.

Blanket Statement Alert! Blanket Statement Alert! Be careful.

Actually if I would have said All it would have been a blanket statement. Thank you for proving my point.:thumb:

First, in your other post you said you weren't "discrediting Pitino" yet he is the only coach that you offer a qualifier concerning his results. The only qualifier I would offer about Rick is that he was able to bring UK back from a scandal not of his making. I would also qualify Tubby's title by saying that he probably stepped into one of the greatest situations in NCAA history.

Concerning Rupps titles 47-51, he benefited from playing in conference that he probably could have won if he rested his starters until the tournament. Most of the SEC teams in those days were pretty pitiful.

I guess my point is, if you believe that today's times are more of the same, then the old days weren't as impressive as we once thought.

Using you logic, I guess I was putting a qualifier on Rupp's successes also.

 

Or did you not see where I said 3 of his 4 championships were won in a 4 year period and only 1 the other 38 years as well as his Elite 8 appearances were only him having to win one game.

 

Again using your mindset, wouldn't that be putting a qualifier on him also? Contrary to you stating that I was ONLY discrediting Pitino's success instead of analyzing all of the UK basketball history.

 

On your qualifier on Tubby's championship, I found it interesting that you IMPLY that this was an easy championship for Tubby to win. A championship that basically only has been repeated a handful of times in the HISTORY (that is about 70 some years) of the NCAA. Rupp did it in 48-51. San Francisco was able to do it in the 50's. Ed Jucker and UC in the 60's. Of course Wooden in the 60's and 70's. Coach K in the late 80's and early 90's and Pitino/Smith in the mid-90's. That implied easy championship of Tubby's has been able to be done by 6/7 coaches. That is it. Pretty good company he keeps in winning an implied 2nd championship in a back-to-back or 3/4 year run.

I wanted to point out some things about UK's basketball history.

 

National championships

They have won 7 national championships but that is built upon two 3-4 year runs. They won in 1948, 49, 51 and 96 and 98. FIVE of the seven came in 7 years. The other approximately 50 years accounted for TWO national championships. It seems winning multiple national championships even for UK is a very hard thing to do.

 

 

Final 4 appearances

Final 4 appearances total 13. Six in that 7 year span I mentioned above. The other 50 years account for a total of 7.

 

 

Elite 8 appearances or regional finalists.

Rupp had 13 but that is misleading, a little, because you only had to win one game to get to the regional final. But that might be balanced out by the field was limited and if you didn't win the SEC you didn't go.

 

It seems some expansion occurred in 1975 through 1985 as they had to play 3 games to get into the regional final and KY had a couple years they played no 1st round game but played a 2nd round game. Made 5 Elite 8 or RF appearances.

 

I believe the NCAA tournament, reading this website http://www.ukathletics.com/doc_lib/mbb_history_ncaatourney.pdf, went to 64 teams in 1985. 10 times they have made the Elite 8 in this format.

Pitino 5 times, Tubby 4 times.

 

Sutton went once. Hall went 5.

 

So 28 times they made it into the regional finalists game. Tubby has been 4 times.

 

So, looking at the coaches legacies....

 

Rupp 4 national championships with only one occurring in the last 21 years of his coaching tenure. Final 4's, ONLY six of them in his 42 years at UK. 3 of them OUTSIDE the great run he had in 48-51. That would be 42 years of coaching and taking that one run out, 3 Final 4 appearances in 38 years. And 13 Elite 8 appearances.

 

Hall had a national championship, 3 Final 4 appearances and 5 Elite 8 appearances.

 

Sutton had 0 national championships, 0 Final 4 appearances and 1 Elite 8 appearances.

 

Pitino had 1 national championship, 3 Final 4 appearances (take that one great run out and that is 1 Final 4 appearance) and 5 Elite 8 appearances.

 

Tubby has 1 national championship, 1 Final 4 appearance and 4 Elite 8 appearances.

 

So, it seems while UK does have a great basketball history and the best in the NCAA, the unrealistic expectations of UK fans is built on a 7-year span. Four of those years in 48-51 and 3 in 96-98.

 

Spans that are the 2nd best in collegiate basketball history (48-51) and in the top 5 in collegiate basketball history (96-98).

 

Take those fantastic runs out and you have a more realistic view of what should be the expectations of UK basketball.

 

In the 75 years since Rupp took over and taking out those two runs, you have 2 national championships, 7 Final 4 appearances and 22 Elite 8 appearances in 68 years.

 

Or a rate of a national championship every 34 years, Final 4 appearance every 9 1/2 years, and an Elite 8 appearance every 3 years.

 

With a run for the ages every 45-50 years as happened in 47-51 and 96-98.

 

Why would you take that one great run out?

So they are freakishly good for 3-4 years...and then average for the other 50?

Why would you take that one great run out?

So they are freakishly good for 3-4 years...and then average for the other 50?

 

I wouldn't say average as they still even in the other 50 some years did things that many other programs cannot match.

 

But a good portion of UK's history in the Final 4 and National championships were built around 2 classes that had strong runs for a 3-4 year period.