Smith is not great, but he has led the defensive line in tackles for 5 straight seasons. No one has shown he is better on 1st, 2nd & 3rd down.

 

Marvin has never said that he will build through the draft ONLY; what he has said is that he will build through the draft primarily.

 

Geathers, Rucker, Fanene, Peko, L. Johnson, Miller, A. Brooks, Nicholson, Joseph, Ratliff, M. Williams, Kilmer, G. Brooks is a young nucleus that needs time to mature( and for some-stay healthy).

 

S. Smith and John Busing were undrafted college free agents (virtually drafted).

 

J. Smith, B. Simmons were drafted by the Bengals and Marvin has always also said he would rather sign his own rather than try to assimilate someone from outside.

 

O'Neal was traded for and he did go the Pro Bowl, so that was not an empty trade; he does need to refocus this upcoming season after dropping off last season.

 

Some positions needed an upgrade immediately just so the Bengals could compete and change the image: James and Thornton along with Kevin Hardy were Marvin's 1st signings (to change the image); they both have been solid overall. Robinson was an attempt to replace the bad choice of Askew. Sam Adams basically begged to come here. Dexter Jackson was an immediate need at safety. Sometimes the draft doesn't go the right way to fill needs.

 

That is what the old Bengals would do, and we know what happened for 13 years. Some have very short memories.

My main issue is 8.6 million for Justin Smith. The underlying point of bringing up the free agents is there hasn't been much success on D in the draft yet. Sure there are a few guys to flash, but if you are going to build through the draft things have to better than they have gone to fix the problems. And since you seem to like the bargain value of the guys we have got in FA, who will we miss this year because we are paying close to 10 million for a guy that has never been even close to a Pro Bowl.

 

I remember 13 years of the old Bengals drafting guys that never worked out (although several worked out very well after they left) and I see a lot of that in this defense as well. Landon. Caleb. Kiewan. Mathias. Frostee. AJ. These guys have to be better to do what Marvin claims to be his plan...

My main issue is 8.6 million for Justin Smith. The underlying point of bringing up the free agents is there hasn't been much success on D in the draft yet. Sure there are a few guys to flash, but if you are going to build through the draft things have to better than they have gone to fix the problems. And since you seem to like the bargain value of the guys we have got in FA, who will we miss this year because we are paying close to 10 million for a guy that has never been even close to a Pro Bowl.

 

I remember 13 years of the old Bengals drafting guys that never worked out (although several worked out very well after they left) and I see a lot of that in this defense as well. Landon. Caleb. Kiewan. Mathias. Frostee. AJ. These guys have to be better to do what Marvin claims to be his plan...

I think it becomes more clear to me everyday that Marvin isn't the one that will take this team to the promise land. Don't get me wrong I like Marvin and what he has done for this team but I just don't think he is the one that can get us over the hump.

I think it becomes more clear to me everyday that Marvin isn't the one that will take this team to the promise land. Don't get me wrong I like Marvin and what he has done for this team but I just don't think he is the one that can get us over the hump.

 

 

Do you really forget what it was like when Marvin took over????

 

The Bengals were 2-14!!!!!!

 

It took 2 years just to get the Bengals back to being a true NFL team.

 

They had a very good year last year and a disappointing year this season.

 

I agree the defense has been a huge disappointment.

 

But where they were in 2003 when Marvin took over forced them to get more free agents than Marvin wanted rather than needing just one or two and they have been snakebit with the injury bug; they have spun their wheels since Marvin has been here or even digressed.

 

They have not really had a chance to build any continuity: Miller & Johnson have bounced around at LB because of injuries and so has Ahmad Brooks in just one season; Madeiu missed a whole season; Ratliff has bounced back and forth between CB and S.

 

They have not had a chance to let the guys settle in to a position and play it for several seasons in a row. Rarely on a good defense do guys bounce around. Considering where they started, they really need time. This is why Marvin has chosen to stick with the 4-3.

 

In two years if the Bengals are not an obvious championship contender, I will agree with you. Just don't forget what it was like before.

Trust me I know what it was like my Family has had season tickets for 15 years. I appreciate and recognize what he has done but I just don't think he is the one to get us to the next level and a few people I have talked to agreed with me.

My thoughts on the move=:irked:

Trust me I know what it was like my Family has had season tickets for 15 years. I appreciate and recognize what he has done but I just don't think he is the one to get us to the next level and a few people I have talked to agreed with me.

 

I believe he is and people I have talked to agree.

I'll counter with this. If he signs long term for reasonable money I'm a lot better with this situation. He is a steady and reliable DE, but he is NOT an 8 million dollar player...

I agree he's not worth 8mil, and also hope a long term deal is made with a much smaller cap number. I love Smith, he's all motor and is very dependable but 8mil is "difference maker" money, and he's not a difference maker.

I think Odell and Pollack have kind of put a chink in the build through the draft concept.

We should be outscoring most people anyways with the multitude of offensive weapons. I would ship Odell off for Dre Bly then get one of the other two DB's that are out there available. That would take care of a lot and free up to draft a LBer which isn't hard to find later in the first round.

I think Odell and Pollack have kind of put a chink in the build through the draft concept.

We should be outscoring most people anyways with the multitude of offensive weapons. I would ship Odell off for Dre Bly then get one of the other two DB's that are out there available. That would take care of a lot and free up to draft a LBer which isn't hard to find later in the first round.

Wow. Not sure where to start.

 

If in 4 years TWO picks define the draft process things are worse that I thought. Pollack was unfortunate and Odell was stupid. Very easy to argue only one should have been drafted. I've always wondered if they asked Pollack about Odell before they used that 2nd round pick.

 

Odell for Dre Bly? Wow. Next.

 

And now you want Bly AND Clements/Samuel? Is this an off season on Madden?

 

It's a very weak LB draft. The best chance for help is after round 1. And at that point most of us aren't very sure who the pick is.

 

Bottom line. The smallest scouting department in the NFL puts a chink in the draft process. If you want to sell me on a franchise that knows who and when to pick GET MORE HELP IN THE PROCESS...

Smith is not great, but he has led the defensive line in tackles for 5 straight seasons. No one has shown he is better on 1st, 2nd & 3rd down.

 

Marvin has never said that he will build through the draft ONLY; what he has said is that he will build through the draft primarily.

 

Geathers, Rucker, Fanene, Peko, L. Johnson, Miller, A. Brooks, Nicholson, Joseph, Ratliff, M. Williams, Kilmer, G. Brooks is a young nucleus that needs time to mature( and for some-stay healthy).

 

S. Smith and John Busing were undrafted college free agents (virtually drafted).

 

J. Smith, B. Simmons were drafted by the Bengals and Marvin has always also said he would rather sign his own rather than try to assimilate someone from outside.

 

O'Neal was traded for and he did go the Pro Bowl, so that was not an empty trade; he does need to refocus this upcoming season after dropping off last season.

 

Some positions needed an upgrade immediately just so the Bengals could compete and change the image: James and Thornton along with Kevin Hardy were Marvin's 1st signings (to change the image); they both have been solid overall. Robinson was an attempt to replace the bad choice of Askew. Sam Adams basically begged to come here. Dexter Jackson was an immediate need at safety. Sometimes the draft doesn't go the right way to fill needs.

 

That is what the old Bengals would do, and we know what happened for 13 years. Some have very short memories.

 

Once again you are saying stuff like we dont know any of this. Yeah we got a pretty good young core group of guys on defense. However this defense has a few major holes to fill if we want to get to where we want and that is to win the super bowl. How long are we going to have to wait for this young group to get good? Are we going to have to wait 5 years, where then are explosive offense would be losing their power? It just makes sense to me to try to go for it now, when you have a explosive offense that only needs a defense. And signing Justin Smith to 8 million for one year, is not something that helps out the team that much because he is not worth 8 million a year. I really hope as GT said that they work out a long term deal which is not worth quite that much and then I wont have as big of a problem with this...

It's all an educated guessing game. I'm not going to lie I have been a Bengals fan for as long as I can remember and I'm pretty much fed up with all the off the field problems they have had. They are on the verge of being special. Why not get rid of Odell and possibly even Henry (he is so talented somebody will take a chance) while you can get something for them. They are both VERY talented but who knows if they will make it through next season. There is enough of a nucleus there to find the missing parts through free agency and draft IMO. Most LBers don't go until later in most drafts. I'll be honest I haven't even looked at the draft yet to see who is coming out at LBer. I know the Lions are looking to move Bly and they need help everywhere although the can't take another WR.

The Bengals are going to score points. I'd go out and get the best DB's I could to shutdown one on one and put the tools in to have guys that are going to bring it on defense. I'll take my chances with an aggressive defense that causes turnovers and arguably the highest powered offense in the NFL when it's clicking vs a team that is loaded with talent but can't depend on it's players to be on the team week to week.

Madden.... I got a chuckle out of that one! I just think you have a chance to get one in a trade and one in free agency. That would be:

Jackson, ONeil, Bly,Joseph, James and Samuals/Clemments right (overcrowded so go after a LBer or Dlineman or TE)? I'm pretty sure you could bring a lot of pressure with those guys back there

It's all an educated guessing game. I'm not going to lie I have been a Bengals fan for as long as I can remember and I'm pretty much fed up with all the off the field problems they have had. They are on the verge of being special. Why not get rid of Odell and possibly even Henry (he is so talented somebody will take a chance) while you can get something for them. They are both VERY talented but who knows if they will make it through next season. There is enough of a nucleus there to find the missing parts through free agency and draft IMO. Most LBers don't go until later in most drafts. I'll be honest I haven't even looked at the draft yet to see who is coming out at LBer. I know the Lions are looking to move Bly and they need help everywhere although the can't take another WR.

The Bengals are going to score points. I'd go out and get the best DB's I could to shutdown one on one and put the tools in to have guys that are going to bring it on defense. I'll take my chances with an aggressive defense that causes turnovers and arguably the highest powered offense in the NFL when it's clicking vs a team that is loaded with talent but can't depend on it's players to be on the team week to week.

Madden.... I got a chuckle out of that one! I just think you have a chance to get one in a trade and one in free agency. That would be:

Jackson, ONeil, Bly,Joseph, James and Samuals/Clemments right (overcrowded so go after a LBer or Dlineman or TE)? I'm pretty sure you could bring a lot of pressure with those guys back there

I'm now positive you don't know much about the situation. Spending 8.6 million on Smith rules out any big name FA and puts in question even mid level pickups. If Thurman and Henry are gone teams will wait for them to be cut. No chance at a trade for either one. Tory James is gone. If you make a trade you take the cap hit and Bly is looking to get PAID...

OK I'm going to bed:) I'm exhausted and that pretty much shows I'm not thinking straight. I have been playing Madden a lot latley though. I have these brain farts every now and then like the time I forgot what Division the Titans were in:lol:

Thanks for crushing my dream of two lockdown DB's so we could bring the heat on defense! I still think that is the kind of system the Bengals need with their high powered offense. I'll trust you on this one. So if I'm hearing you right the Bengals just wasted a bunch of cash which in turn rules out bringing in one of the top DB's. They also aren't going to get anything for Odel or Henry so we just have to pray they get straightened up but there is a good chance they don't see the field next year based on past experiences? Sounds like the Bengals of old!:madman: