We played AC in football several years ago, and they have the confederate flag in the tile in the entry way of the school. It kinda of surprised us and our team is close to 45% African American.It did bother some of our players,however I don't remember any racial trash talking taking place as does happen against some of our opponents.I too get tired of all the political correctness,but if the display of the confederate flag doesn't offend you just a little it should.Don't see it as a left wing issue,but a 2006 issue.

 

 

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First, TheDeuce didn't say anything....True Blue said it and I agreed....

 

Thanks, TD. I think he attributed it to you, rather than me, so that he can keep avoiding the questions in my post, the biggest still being how can a Kentucky school claim rebel heritage when Kentucky never seceded from the Union?

 

 

 

7. Ladiesbballcoach is concerned about this being a public school. So what. Local public schools are run by local people. If there is an abuse, others can and do step in. There is no abuse here but, instead, individuals trying to impose their idea of what should and should not be on others. To use another often used phrase, TDS, Pillersdorf, the downstate "handlers", et als. have no dog in this fight. The game is merely a ploy and a set up.

 

Scooter, obviously I have stated my opinion on the matter but that was not my point in the public school issue.

 

I submitted for everyone to consider how is allowing the rebel flag that is seen as a symbol of racism and hatred at a public school event any different from how the Supreme Court has ruled on prayer and Christian shows of faith.

 

I am not talking about my opinion or your opinion on the issue but rather what has been ruled as the schools' not being able to allow something to occur because it is seen as a state-supported issue then.

 

Schools cannot allow a prayer before the game because it would be seen as a state supporting Christianity. So how come they are allowed to support symbols that are seen as racist?

Scooter, obviously I have stated my opinion on the matter but that was not my point in the public school issue.

 

I submitted for everyone to consider how is allowing the rebel flag that is seen as a symbol of racism and hatred at a public school event any different from how the Supreme Court has ruled on prayer and Christian shows of faith.

 

I am not talking about my opinion or your opinion on the issue but rather what has been ruled as the schools' not being able to allow something to occur because it is seen as a state-supported issue then.

 

Schools cannot allow a prayer before the game because it would be seen as a state supporting Christianity. So how come they are allowed to support symbols that are seen as racist?

 

Because the Supreme Court of the United States has determined that a prayer is overtly religious and therefore violative of a constitutional law. In other words, prayer touches two constitutional rights, not just one.

 

The Confederate flag, on the other hand, has never been found by the United States Supreme Court to be an overtly racist symbol, and HAS found that the flag constitutes an expression of one constitutionally protected freedom, that of speech.

Because the Supreme Court of the United States has determined that a prayer is overtly religious and therefore violative of a constitutional law. In other words, prayer touches two constitutional rights, not just one.

 

The Confederate flag, on the other hand, has never been found by the United States Supreme Court to be an overtly racist symbol, and HAS found that the flag constitutes an expression of one constitutionally protected freedom, that of speech.

Thanks Hearsay, I was hoping you would address it but let me ask another question. Good commentary on the makeup of our society that prayer is bad and outlawed, racist action by the confederate flag protected.

 

And remember that we are talking about a public school here and not a private organization.....Doesn't government agencies have a responsibility to protect a non-harrassing or threatening environment for their employees or in this case public schools and their students?

 

I know we hear all the time about the bullying issue and making sure that students feel safe and in a non-threatening environment.

 

Legally, can this issue be looked at differently since it is a public school rather than a private organization? The games are ON government property in a sense.

 

Also, if the game was at TDS, private property, can they now confiscate any flags, clothing, accessories with the confederate flag?

Your missing the point. The Battle flag has been flown at every KKK demonstration since Reconstruction.

 

The "Stars and Bars" are seldom, if ever displayed, at such events. You might also recall that the Confederates also adopted the Flag with the St Andrews Cross at the top left and white throughout the rest of the field. They then added a Red bar to the far right end of the flag when some suggested it looked like flag of truce or surrender.

 

 

You mention the first reasons for the flag as not racist. It's another thread I know but what was the need for state's to assert their rights? What was the issue that drove them to want to expand slavery in the new territories from 1820 to 1850? What was the issue that frightened them to want to leave the union?

 

Was it stitched with those things in mind? If not up front, it was certainly in the weavings of the background.

 

 

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Because the Supreme Court of the United States has determined that a prayer is overtly religious and therefore violative of a constitutional law. In other words, prayer touches two constitutional rights, not just one.

 

The Confederate flag, on the other hand, has never been found by the United States Supreme Court to be an overtly racist symbol, and HAS found that the flag constitutes an expression of one constitutionally protected freedom, that of speech.

 

I just got back from Lexington and see that Heresay has explained the situation far better than can I. As Heresay stated, no valid court has ever found that the Confederate flag is in and of itself racist. That is of utmost significance whether some of you want to believe it or not.

 

TrueBlue seems to think that his question has not been answered. Well, TB, using your thought as a basis, I suppose that, for example, the Maysville Saint Patrick Saints should be forbidden from calling themselves the Saints since no one at the school has ever been canonized. Possibly since no real fullblooded wildcat has ever attended the University of Kentucky, UK should be forced to change its name. I would submit that having or not having seceded from the Union is immaterial to the issue.

They are obviously are not sincere but, instead, have an agenda.

 

What's wrong with having an agenda?

 

The Little Rock Nine had an agenda.

 

James Meridith had an agenda.

 

Vivian Malone had an agenda.

 

Rosa Parks had an agenda.

What's wrong with having an agenda?

 

The Little Rock Nine had an agenda.

 

James Meridith had an agenda.

 

Vivian Malone had an agenda.

 

Rosa Parks had an agenda.

 

Good grief. Can the television cameras and Jesse Jackson be far behind? Surely, when Shakespeare wrote "Much Ado About Nothing" he had this matter in mind.

 

Why not just let little TDS cancel the game, let AC do as it pleases as long as they are not breaking any laws, and move on to something relevant. On the other hand, if you have an agenda, admit it so that people can see you for what you really are- troublemakers.

Thanks Hearsay, I was hoping you would address it but let me ask another question. Good commentary on the makeup of our society that prayer is bad and outlawed, racist action by the confederate flag protected.

 

And remember that we are talking about a public school here and not a private organization.....Doesn't government agencies have a responsibility to protect a non-harrassing or threatening environment for their employees or in this case public schools and their students?

 

I know we hear all the time about the bullying issue and making sure that students feel safe and in a non-threatening environment.

 

Legally, can this issue be looked at differently since it is a public school rather than a private organization? The games are ON government property in a sense.

 

Also, if the game was at TDS, private property, can they now confiscate any flags, clothing, accessories with the confederate flag?

 

It is POSSIBLE that, because Allen Central is a school and involves minors, that the school might have a responsibility to suppress usage of the battle flag if there were ANY evidence to suggest that riots might ensure that would injure students.

 

But only because it is a school.

 

You will recall that the Ku Klux Klan has legally had the right to demonstrate on the courthouse steps in Louisville every year for the last several, wearing their Klan hoods. Obviously, the Klan hoods are a symbol likely to incite riot, but the Klan's free speech rights and right to assemble outweigh even a likely hostile response.

 

A school is a little different, because of its compelled, enclosed environment involving minors. But it has little to do with the free speech issue, its a weighing of rights.

 

Pillersdorf's better argument, in my opinion, will be to challenge the KHSAA on the voluntary nature of Allen Central's participation in the KHSAA. If KHSAA passes a no-flag rule, just like the Boy Scouts, Allen Central can either comply or withdraw. The NCAA has been successful with this for the last several years.

Good grief. Can the television cameras and Jesse Jackson be far behind? Surely, when Shakespeare wrote "Much Ado About Nothing" he had this matter in mind.

 

Why not just let little TDS cancel the game, let AC do as it pleases as long as they are not breaking any laws, and move on to something relevant. On the other hand, if you have an agenda, admit it so that people can see you for what you really are- troublemakers.

 

My point that you missed is that the term "agenda" is used when one doesn't like the stance another takes. You've proven that.

 

People called the Little Rock Nine "troublemakers." Why? They disagreed with their "agenda."

 

I must admit that your rhetoric is straight from central casting. I have no problem with you disagreeing with the stance being taken. However, you must admit that your words (agenda, troublemakers,etc) are exactly those that were used in the South long ago. All we're missing is Eugene Bull Connor and Walter Cronkite.

What's wrong with having an agenda?

 

The Little Rock Nine had an agenda.

 

James Meridith had an agenda.

 

Vivian Malone had an agenda.

 

Rosa Parks had an agenda.

 

:thumb:

TrueBlue seems to think that his question has not been answered. Well, TB, using your thought as a basis, I suppose that, for example, the Maysville Saint Patrick Saints should be forbidden from calling themselves the Saints since no one at the school has ever been canonized. Possibly since no real fullblooded wildcat has ever attended the University of Kentucky, UK should be forced to change its name. I would submit that having or not having seceded from the Union is immaterial to the issue.

 

If it is immaterial, someone should explain that to the AC principal, as she makes the argument (according to both articles that were referenced in the original post) that the Confederate flag is part of "our" (I assume she meant the school's?) heritage. That is where my comment came from.

 

Additionally, you keep using this "founding fathers" argument. Again, some of those founding fathers "owned" slaves. They would, perhaps, shake their heads at those pesky little things that we like to refer to as "ammendments" to the constitution, particularly the 13t, 15th, and 19th.

Oh my. Pandora's Box is now fully open. The inmates have taken over the asylum. Reason and relevance have been destroyed. So be it. Since I am lefthanded, can I count on you "revolutionaries" for support when I accuse society of prejudice against my group from all manneer of sources?

Good grief. Can the television cameras and Jesse Jackson be far behind? Surely, when Shakespeare wrote "Much Ado About Nothing" he had this matter in mind.

 

Why not just let little TDS cancel the game, let AC do as it pleases as long as they are not breaking any laws, and move on to something relevant. On the other hand, if you have an agenda, admit it so that people can see you for what you really are- troublemakers.

I thought about just that today. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Jackson does not become involved in all of this.

 

Scooterbob, I'll say that I think that you are dead on on your thinking about this particular subject.

 

Slavery was a horrible, horrible thing that I hope never gets repeated, but a thing that never, ever gets mentioned is that all of the slaves that were brought to America were rounded up, captured and sold to the slave traders by their own people, or rival tribesmen.