And the basic time limit to get that much?

 

 

Gosh, that is unique to each district. Consider Boone County, rapid growth with a growth nickel and they cannot keep up. My estimate you are looking at every bit of 10 years average from concept to use, if not longer and in the meantime, the current stuff needs fixed, maintained, etc.

Gosh, that is unique to each district. Consider Boone County, rapid growth with a growth nickel and they cannot keep up. My estimate you are looking at every bit of 10 years average from concept to use, if not longer and in the meantime, the current stuff needs fixed, maintained, etc.

Thank you SS for all of the information. While it does not have to be 100% accurate, it does give a good view that Publics do not have an open checkbook to do what they wish. There is a lengthy time period and many hoops to jump through to build.

 

I would add that in some cases it would be easier including funding for a private to build the facility they wish than it would be for a public.

You do have the RIGHT as do all public school districts. The money does follow the child when the districts work together on an agreement. Your district has CHOSEN OF ITS OWN VOLITION not to exercise that right. Big difference. That means clearly that local politics has entered into the equation and now to solve it, you seek a state wide issue. Look locally, there's the answer!!

Excuse me but "my" district is fine with the money going with the child. The Harlan "County" district can't compete academically and will not agree to this for fear of losing a LOT of students. So you are wrong again. Yes its politics, but on the County side, not Harlan Independent. And while I'm preaching, the State of Kentucky does nothing to help the Independent districts, even though they provide a better education in some cases. So its State and local thanks very much.

Excuse me but "my" district is fine with the money going with the child. The Harlan "County" district can't compete academically and will not agree to this for fear of losing a LOT of students. So you are wrong again. Yes its politics, but on the County side, not Harlan Independent. And while I'm preaching, the State of Kentucky does nothing to help the Independent districts, even though they provide a better education in some cases. So its State and local thanks very much.

So there!:argue: Showed me. Ha. Not!. The point is that you can fix things at the local level a whole lot easier than at the state level. It does however, required getting up from behind a complaining stand and taking action. All you've done is prove the point. That battle, though erroneously by some being carrier on the statewide stage, should be fought at the local level. And by the way, what does the state owe the independent districts that it doesn't owe public school districts? That response will be very interesting to see you pen.

So there!:argue: Showed me. Ha. Not!. The point is that you can fix things at the local level a whole lot easier than at the state level. It does however, required getting up from behind a complaining stand and taking action. All you've done is prove the point. That battle, though erroneously by some being carrier on the statewide stage, should be fought at the local level. And by the way, what does the state owe the independent districts that it doesn't owe public school districts? That response will be very interesting to see you pen.

Although your response is amusing with the cute little faces, it doesn't make much sense. Of course it is a local problem, however the point you were making was that it was "my district". The point I made, was NOT! And since you are not here and do not know the situation or me, I can tell you that everyone who has influence has done everything we can to affect the situation. Locally, politics reign in the county system, which is larger, thus carries more votes, so politicians either take their side or remain maddingly silent on the issue. Thus the need for statewide reform such as happened in Michigan. You cannot tell me that a statewide money follows the child to any public school system wouldn't create a postive effect on education. It is the law of competive commerce applied to the schools. The parents can "buy" the best product with the same money, putting the onus on the schools to improve to attract the kids. Sports would be a side beneficiary of this also, as is some folk's arguement on the public/private debate. I'd be interested to know what part of the state you reside in. Also your tone indicates you believe I am out to "show you". I'm merely participating in the debate, since my shool is affected. Now here is my cute little face.

Although your response is amusing with the cute little faces, it doesn't make much sense. Of course it is a local problem, however the point you were making was that it was "my district". The point I made, was NOT! And since you are not here and do not know the situation or me, I can tell you that everyone who has influence has done everything we can to affect the situation. Locally, politics reign in the county system, which is larger, thus carries more votes, so politicians either take their side or remain maddingly silent on the issue. Thus the need for statewide reform such as happened in Michigan. You cannot tell me that a statewide money follows the child to any public school system wouldn't create a postive effect on education. It is the law of competive commerce applied to the schools. The parents can "buy" the best product with the same money, putting the onus on the schools to improve to attract the kids. Sports would be a side beneficiary of this also, as is some folk's arguement on the public/private debate. I'd be interested to know what part of the state you reside in. Also your tone indicates you believe I am out to "show you". I'm merely participating in the debate, since my shool is affected. Now here is my cute little face.

Relax a bit. Don't let your frustration spoil your sense of humor.

 

What you are talking about is more of a systematic change that if it is to work, must come from a groundswell at the local level. And I am all too familiar with Eastern Kentucky and educational politics. More than I care to admit. A few years ago, several schools made a request to simply recover some of their coal severance money for education and ended up with KERA. So some are naturally gunshy about asking for any more "reform". Others are perfectly content with the little kingdoms that in many counties, the local school systems have become. They in some areas, are the county's largest employer (outside of the county government, and bigger than them sometime), and change is very slow and can only happen five members at a time, meaning the local board of education.

 

And it won't change until the foiks making those decisions quit doing what is best for their adult peers and begin doing what is best for the students in positioning them for a global economy.

 

And for my money by the way, the very commerce driven product you speak about is exactly why we have seen an explosive growth in private education and home schooling in the last 10 years. I never said you were wrong, just misdirecting your venom. KDE, KHSAA, even the legislature, cannot change things in local areas until the folks in those areas want to see change.

Relax a bit. Don't let your frustration spoil your sense of humor.

 

What you are talking about is more of a systematic change that if it is to work, must come from a groundswell at the local level. And I am all too familiar with Eastern Kentucky and educational politics. More than I care to admit. A few years ago, several schools made a request to simply recover some of their coal severance money for education and ended up with KERA. So some are naturally gunshy about asking for any more "reform". Others are perfectly content with the little kingdoms that in many counties, the local school systems have become. They in some areas, are the county's largest employer (outside of the county government, and bigger than them sometime), and change is very slow and can only happen five members at a time, meaning the local board of education.

 

And it won't change until the foiks making those decisions quit doing what is best for their adult peers and begin doing what is best for the students in positioning them for a global economy.

 

And for my money by the way, the very commerce driven product you speak about is exactly why we have seen an explosive growth in private education and home schooling in the last 10 years. I never said you were wrong, just misdirecting your venom. KDE, KHSAA, even the legislature, cannot change things in local areas until the folks in those areas want to see change.

:thumb: allrighty then! Just wanted folks to know there are those of us who have tried and who will try to change things.

Hey, anytime the state wants to do away with the reform measures, fine by me. But that will have to include the unfair money going to east KY.

Hey, anytime the state wants to do away with the reform measures, fine by me. But that will have to include the unfair money going to east KY.

I believe Judge Billy Ray Corns (was that his name) would disagree with you on the unfair money issue.

 

If one part of the state is not financially able to support it's schools, isn't it a responsibility of the other parts of the state to pull them up? Or do we just write those kids off because they come from the wrong side of the tracks?

 

Now should Highlands, Beechwood be penalized. I am not sure. I see both sides. If these areas continued to raise more and more funds, then the state would have to continue to send even more and more funds to EKY to make sure that they had a equilivant situation as Highlands and Beechwood. It would be like a black hole, sucking money continually. So I understand the need for a cap to prevent such situations.

 

BUT I have a problem telling a community that cannot look to improve their educational status.

Hey, anytime the state wants to do away with the reform measures, fine by me. But that will have to include the unfair money going to east KY.

:fight: obviously you don't know much about money for Eastern Kentucky. If the State legislature would do the right thing and let the Coal producing counties keep 100% of the Coal Severence money that we generate, we wouldn't need your "education money". Right now our Coal severence is going to Louisville, Lexington and other areas that have nothing to do with Coal. Sorry, but your arguement has no basis in fact.

I believe Judge Billy Ray Corns (was that his name) would disagree with you on the unfair money issue.

 

If one part of the state is not financially able to support it's schools, isn't it a responsibility of the other parts of the state to pull them up? Or do we just write those kids off because they come from the wrong side of the tracks?

Now should Highlands, Beechwood be penalized. I am not sure. I see both sides. If these areas continued to raise more and more funds, then the state would have to continue to send even more and more funds to EKY to make sure that they had a equilivant situation as Highlands and Beechwood. It would be like a black hole, sucking money continually. So I understand the need for a cap to prevent such situations.

 

BUT I have a problem telling a community that cannot look to improve their educational status.

 

Your point is well taken. But, look at the subsequent post. The amount of ADA to these school districts vs. other areas is so grossly unfair and yet, there is a supposed economic imbalance in funding still to those areas?:creepy: Coal severance revenue vs. Seek vs. Road Aid fund? This could go on all day long. But to suggest even more is needed when these districts are getting 2 to 3 times the amount of other districts?:confused:

 

A cap vs. a minimum / maximum range that each district has to get? Or a cap on capital construction for some school districts. The facilities in certain districts is ridiculous compared to those in the strong economy areas. I mean, how many and how much newer do school buildings need to be.

 

But, I guess Dragon is right I have no basis in fact for my positions.

Your point is well taken. But, look at the subsequent post. The amount of ADA to these school districts vs. other areas is so grossly unfair and yet, there is a supposed economic imbalance in funding still to those areas?:creepy: Coal severance revenue vs. Seek vs. Road Aid fund? This could go on all day long. But to suggest even more is needed when these districts are getting 2 to 3 times the amount of other districts?:confused:

 

A cap vs. a minimum / maximum range that each district has to get? Or a cap on capital construction for some school districts. The facilities in certain districts is ridiculous compared to those in the strong economy areas. I mean, how many and how much newer do school buildings need to be.

 

But, I guess Dragon is right I have no basis in fact for my positions.

I understand and can see both sides. I do not have enough expertise to know the answer. But can see your position and can also see the view of EKY. That might be waffling but I know and agree of the problems. Just don't have a solution.

Your point is well taken. But, look at the subsequent post. The amount of ADA to these school districts vs. other areas is so grossly unfair and yet, there is a supposed economic imbalance in funding still to those areas?:creepy: Coal severance revenue vs. Seek vs. Road Aid fund? This could go on all day long. But to suggest even more is needed when these districts are getting 2 to 3 times the amount of other districts?:confused:

 

A cap vs. a minimum / maximum range that each district has to get? Or a cap on capital construction for some school districts. The facilities in certain districts is ridiculous compared to those in the strong economy areas. I mean, how many and how much newer do school buildings need to be.

 

But, I guess Dragon is right I have no basis in fact for my positions.

Look, I guess I get real defensive, but the bottom line is that this is a lot more complicated than any of us realized when this thread was started. I've learned some things, and I'm betting I'm not the only one. I guess the thing to do is to take our positions and work our well paid politicians for some solutions. The problem is so muti-faceted it makes your head spin. I may have been a little strong with my defensiveness, so I apologize for that. If we take something away, it should be that we should all support our schools and teams, realizing that there are unique problems with public, private, independent, urban, rural, etc, and that while we are working on those problems, we need to remember to be good examples to the kids and be gentlemen ( and women ) about it. Good discussion!

Look, I guess I get real defensive, but the bottom line is that this is a lot more complicated than any of us realized when this thread was started. I've learned some things, and I'm betting I'm not the only one. I guess the thing to do is to take our positions and work our well paid politicians for some solutions. The problem is so muti-faceted it makes your head spin. I may have been a little strong with my defensiveness, so I apologize for that. If we take something away, it should be that we should all support our schools and teams, realizing that there are unique problems with public, private, independent, urban, rural, etc, and that while we are working on those problems, we need to remember to be good examples to the kids and be gentlemen ( and women ) about it. Good discussion!

 

 

Maybe the forum needs to be renamed "Public versus the other Public debates".

This has been stated over and over in this forum .You might as well be talking to a brick wall or a teenager . People will only believe what they want to as long as it fits into their own personal agendas . It doesn't favor athletes over non playing students .

 

I agree that what you are saying is true. My son attends private school so I am partial to their programs. I must point out however that even though the financial aid is based on a fair system the information is dispersed less equally. Example: I coached several years in the CSAA football program. Several private HS scouts attended the games and approached my better players with information about their schools and how to receive financial aid. At no point did they approach my less talented player or our student body attending the games. So I agree that the way financial aid is distributed is fair but it still allows for recruiting in areas such as Louisville and Lexington.