That's easy Frances...

 

Just ask me. :sssh:

 

That wasn't too smug was it?

 

I don't know why, but "smug" becomes you ...

 

 

Frances

I don't know why, but "smug" becomes you ...

 

 

Frances

Well... just as long as I don't become smug I guess...

I will give my two cents if that is okay to both you and Hearsay.[/Quote] Always glad to have your .02, LBBC.

 

To Christians, my feeling is that the Bible is the final say....

Ah, but you are missing the question.

 

As we see (clearly illustrated here on BGP), there are innumerable interpretations of the Bible. Which is correct? Who is the final arbiter of what a specific scripture means? Who has the authority to resolve two conflicting scriptures?

 

When you can answer those questions, we then need to apply those same questions to the Koran, the Talmud, the Veda, I Ching, Tao Te Chung, and all of the other sacred texts.

 

Who is the final arbiter?

 

 

Frances

Well... just as long as I don't become smug I guess...

 

LOL - well, at this point, we've both become slugs, so I guess "smug" probably isn't too far behind...

 

 

Frances

Always glad to have your .02, LBBC.

 

 

Ah, but you are missing the question.

 

As we see (clearly illustrated here on BGP), there are innumerable interpretations of the Bible. Which is correct? Who is the final arbiter of what a specific scripture means? Who has the authority to resolve two conflicting scriptures?

 

When you can answer those questions, we then need to apply those same questions to the Koran, the Talmud, the Veda, I Ching, Tao Te Chung, and all of the other sacred texts.

 

Who is the final arbiter?

 

 

Frances

Answered it with this statement....

 

God will make that final call at the end of time.

 

 

I have no authority or no one on this planet in all of history or future, save one person, has had or will have that authority. We just do the best we can based upon what Scripture tells us. And on the MAJOR issue, eternal salvation, Jesus has been clear, some would say, crystal clear on that.

Answered it with this statement....

 

God will make that final call at the end of time.

 

 

I have no authority or no one on this planet in all of history or future, save one person, has had or will have that authority. We just do the best we can based upon what Scripture tells us. And on the MAJOR issue, eternal salvation, Jesus has been clear, some would say, crystal clear on that.

 

Your answer addresses what you believe the situation will be after death. My question is temporal in nature. We live in a world that requires us to co-exist.

 

My question was a response to Hearsay's plea that we not start down the road of "situational truth" (for lack of a better term).

 

I appreciate your response, LBBC, but it does not address my question. On this earth, in this lifetime, how are we to decide?

 

This is one of the most basic questions that philosophy tries to address.

 

 

Frances

Your answer addresses what you believe the situation will be after death. My question is temporal in nature. We live in a world that requires us to co-exist.

 

My question was a response to Hearsay's plea that we not start down the road of "situational truth" (for lack of a better term).

 

I appreciate your response, LBBC, but it does not address my question. On this earth, in this lifetime, how are we to decide?

 

This is one of the most basic questions that philosophy tries to address.

 

 

Frances

And a fundamental flaw of humans today is that we demand and deserve an answer, now. We don't and will get that answer in God's time.

 

As far as the true answer to your question concerning this world, there is none. Our world views that each individual is left up to their own decision making and thought process to determine what is true for them.

 

As far as today, the Bible asks that we think of others before we think of ourselves. That is a fundamental thought process of being a Christian or at least should be because it is the model that Christ set for us.

 

I feel it is a good place to start in learning to co-exist with others.

Again..."Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord". So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Romans 14:11. Now some will say this as they pass the gateway to hell Luke 16:19. Heaven has a narow gate with a narrow road to the gate...And only a few will find it. Matthew 7:13. John 14:6 Jesus said "I am the Way, the truth, the Life...no one comes to the Father except through me". God gave man Freewill. We are not puppets on strings. Man can say things because that is the way he understands it, but you have to really study the Bible.

i think Frances' point is this:

 

If I read the Bible and I get from it one thing

 

then

 

You read the Bible and get from it something different

 

Who decides which one of us is correct?

 

If there is not an earthly authority to decipher the truth, then it boils down to the truth as understood by "me" through Christ's revelation.

 

It is therefore purely situational.

i think Frances' point is this:

 

If I read the Bible and I get from it one thing

 

then

 

You read the Bible and get from it something different

 

Who decides which one of us is correct?

 

If there is not an earthly authority to decipher the truth, then it boils down to the truth as understood by "me" through Christ's revelation.

 

It is therefore purely situational.

God will decide at the end of time. For now, it is up to Christians to debate in a proper manner and using Scripture show each other what we meant.

 

As you and I have been doing. Each of us have used Scripture to indicate our positions and I have agreed with yours and then challenged you to consider that it is more. Now it is up to prayer and letting the Holy Spirit guide you/I and influence you/I to decide whether my points that LOVE and SIN is BOTH the message has validity or is a load of crap.

 

My answer for Christian is the HOLY SPIRT is the final authority. Of which we have full power to ignore and continue with the thoughts that we wish rather than what we know.

i think Frances' point is this:

 

If I read the Bible and I get from it one thing

 

then

 

You read the Bible and get from it something different

 

Who decides which one of us is correct?

 

If there is not an earthly authority to decipher the truth, then it boils down to the truth as understood by "me" through Christ's revelation.

 

It is therefore purely situational.

 

I think the most important point is that the way to salvation is crystal clear...as someone stated earlier. Even if we disagree on how we go about worship or our views on certain topics, all true Christians agree on that and that is what binds us.

2 Questions:

 

1. Where in the Bible does it instruct us to point out the sins of NON-Christians? I don't think anywhere. It talks about rebuking our brothers and sisters in Christ, but not about rebuking non-believers.

 

2. Why would a homosexual ever come to know Jesus if he/she is constantly being bombarded with what an abomination they are.

C. Philip Yancey has an awesome book (actually he has several) entitled What's So Amazing About Grace where he talks to a woman who has been a prostitute and is in an awful place in her life, and he asks her if she has thought about going to a church and talking with someone there and she says, Why would I go to a church, I feel bad enough about myself as it is?

 

True story, says a lot about Christians and the message we put forth.

 

First, I thought that's what this thread was about...believers. If it's a religion then it pertains to believers, right?

 

Second, I don't agree that they should be bombarded and put down...but bombarding them is quite different than just ignoring it completely. If we ignore, then we are condoning it...and if you do that, where do you stop? Do we just ignore that someone may be a drug addict, an alcoholic, an adulterer, a murderer, etc...? The Bible tells us they're all sins, and it makes mention of them on more than one occastion, so I think they should be brought to attention from time to time. I think there is too much attention (nationally and in the media) on issues like homosexuality and abortion, while others are swept under the rug, but...

 

I ask you, why would a person come to Jesus for salvation if they didn't think they were doing anything wrong? If a person isn't convicted of their sin, then they probably aren't going to be saved because they won't see the need for it.

First, I thought that's what this thread was about...believers. If it's a religion then it pertains to believers, right?

 

Second, I don't agree that they should be bombarded and put down...but bombarding them is quite different than just ignoring it completely. If we ignore, then we are condoning it...and if you do that, where do you stop? Do we just ignore that someone may be a drug addict, an alcoholic, an adulterer, a murderer, etc...? The Bible tells us they're all sins, and it makes mention of them on more than one occastion, so I think they should be brought to attention from time to time. I think there is too much attention (nationally and in the media) on issues like homosexuality and abortion, while others are swept under the rug, but...

 

I ask you, why would a person come to Jesus for salvation if they didn't think they were doing anything wrong? If a person isn't convicted of their sin, then they probably aren't going to be saved because they won't see the need for it.

Let me take this for ace....we don't ever convict a person of sin. The Holy Spirit does that. We are called to be witnesses.

Let me take this for ace....we don't ever convict a person of sin. The Holy Spirit does that. We are called to be witnesses.

 

Fair enough...and I agree. But, I also think the Holy Spirit can lead a preacher, for example, to speak about sin...and He, the Holy Spirit, might use that as a means of convicting a person of their sin.

 

My initial comment was worded poorly, but I'll stick by my original intent, which was not to say that our job as Christians is to convict someone of sin, but I do think we can be a vessel for the Holy Spirit to use in doing that job.

 

How about addressing the rest of my post now? If we ignore a sin...where do we draw the line...where do we stop?

Fair enough...and I agree. But, I also think the Holy Spirit can lead a preacher, for example, to speak about sin...and He, the Holy Spirit, might use that as a means of convicting a person of their sin.

 

My initial comment was worded poorly, but I'll stick by my original intent, which was not to say that our job as Christians is to convict someone of sin, but I do think we can be a vessel for the Holy Spirit to use in doing that job.

 

How about addressing the rest of my post now? If we ignore a sin...where do we draw the line...where do we stop?

I am with you at the point of it does fall to us as Christians to point sin. Is it a major responsibility. Nope. Does it fall as a responsibility? Yes.

 

I would counter that pointing out sin in one's life works best with someone that we have a friendship with and respect rather than someone we don't know. Absolutely, we should be developing friendship with people and pointing out the sin in their AND OUR lives while still loving them.