I'm certainly of the opinion, its not okay but the problem in this instance, is if was first noticed via TV and LaRussa, waited between innings to bring it to the attention of the Umpire.

 

If during the inning, play would have been stopped and the Umpires inspected Rogers hand, found the substance and determined it not to be dirt, but rather a foreign substance....he would have been ejected and suspended for 10 games.

 

Rogers is not angel and his antics on the field and temper outbursts, do not make me like him the person....as a Pitcher, he has performed amazingly in the Playoffs. I believe it was pinetar, he is in the wrong but was not inspected by the Umpiring crew.

 

 

It just gets under my skin when people affiliated (or was affiliated) with the league say it's no big deal.

It just gets under my skin when people affiliated (or was affiliated) with the league say it's no big deal.

Understand and par of the problem facing MLB and professional sports, the appearance of condoning cheating, enhancements and not enough penalties for the offenders.

 

MLB is facing an image problem, with all the enhancements allegations and once the discussion of pitchers using foreign substances (which they do) is included, the integrity of the game is becoming less and less....

 

It did appear, that LaRussa was made aware of the substance when the last batter was hitting and if he would have requested an inspection, Rogers would be gone. I believe LaRussa, was trying to verify himself and didn't want to create a scene, out of respect for Leyland.

After reading and listening to all the reports, I've lost a lot of respect for MLB. IMO, there's no question it was pine tar, and almost everyone else outside of the Tigers organization is saying the same. This offense comes with immediate ejection and 10 game suspension. Batters with pine tar too high on the bat and corked bats are ejected, why not pitchers who cheat? All the comments I have heard is that it's no big deal, and it's a very common thing. So, is MLB saying that cheating is OK? :irked:

Colin Cowherd was just discussing this exact thing on the radio. He was making the point that baseball is gray, whereas football is black and white. He also said baseball is the only sport that the unwritten rules are more enforced than the written ones, at times. For example, if someone talks to a pitcher or to the media during a no-hitter, everyone goes ballistic. A pitcher with something on his hand, not as big of a deal. Not saying its right, just the way it is. I also agree with what Scribe said, I think LaRussa did not want to have his own pitchers too closely scrutinized. That and his relationship with Leyland had to play into it. You put Dusty Baker in the opposite dugout and LaRussa goes nuts, sunglasses off, running onto the field!

It did appear, that LaRussa was made aware of the substance when the last batter was hitting and if he would have requested an inspection, Rogers would be gone. I believe LaRussa, was trying to verify himself and didn't want to create a scene, out of respect for Leyland.

 

 

I actually respected what LaRussa did. He pretty much gave Rogers the option of playing fair or not, whether it was outta respect for Leyland or the game. I don't think at the time he thought it would've gotten this blown up afterwards. However, did Leyland know what Rogers was doing? I would think so.

I actually respected what LaRussa did. He pretty much gave Rogers the option of playing fair or not, whether it was outta respect for Leyland or the game. I don't think at the time he thought it would've gotten this blown up afterwards. However, did Leyland know what Rogers was doing? I would think so.

Good question and not because I like Leyland, but I honestly don't think he knew Rogers had the substance on his hands.

 

If anyone would have known, it would have been the bullpen coach or pitching coach, since their interaction is prior to the game starting. Very seldom, does a Manager communicate with his starter prior to the game preliminaries, until he comes in from the mound after inning 1.

 

Coaches are looking for mechanical issues, release points, location and change in velocity, rather than peripheral issues.

Good question and not because I like Leyland, but I honestly don't think he knew Rogers had the substance on his hands.

 

If anyone would have known, it would have been the bullpen coach or pitching coach, since their interaction is prior to the game starting. Very seldom, does a Manager communicate with his starter prior to the game preliminaries, until he comes in from the mound after inning 1.

 

Coaches are looking for mechanical issues, release points, location and change in velocity, rather than peripheral issues.

 

Good point. So, I guess Inge knew from listening to the Cardinals' dugout?

Good point. So, I guess Inge knew from listening to the Cardinals' dugout?

I'm guessing, the TV in the clubhouse (which isn't supposed to be on during games), told both teams.

 

I saw Inge talking with Rogers and then, he went down stairs into the clubhouse.

The unwritten rules of baseball have been amended to help slow down offenses. Every umpire on the field saw the spot, but more importantly, they've seen Rogers tug at his cap all year long and have done absolutely nothing...

 

Fact is, MLB wants to help pitchers any way they can: it speeds up games and dampers the offenses that have made a mockery of the record books.

 

This is not cheating. It's more like.....stealing signs. The other team has every opportunity to steal just as many. If they don't, well.....

The unwritten rules of baseball have been amended to help slow down offenses. Every umpire on the field saw the spot, but more importantly, they've seen Rogers tug at his cap all year long and have done absolutely nothing...

 

Fact is, MLB wants to help pitchers any way they can: it speeds up games and dampers the offenses that have made a mockery of the record books.

 

This is not cheating. It's more like.....stealing signs. The other team has every opportunity to steal just as many. If they don't, well.....

Tugging on a cap, is natural and done by 99.9% of the pitchers. Not sure I understand, how every Umpire on the field saw the spot, on Rogers hand. You have Umpires at each base and down the line.....:confused:

 

I know 2 MLB Umpires, both with excellent integrity and if they observed something illegal, neither would allow it to continue and I feel this crew, would certainly do the same.

The unwritten rules of baseball have been amended to help slow down offenses. Every umpire on the field saw the spot, but more importantly, they've seen Rogers tug at his cap all year long and have done absolutely nothing...

 

Fact is, MLB wants to help pitchers any way they can: it speeds up games and dampers the offenses that have made a mockery of the record books.

 

This is not cheating. It's more like.....stealing signs. The other team has every opportunity to steal just as many. If they don't, well.....

Tugging on a cap, is natural and done by 99.9% of the pitchers. Not sure I understand, how every Umpire on the field saw the spot, on Rogers hand. You have Umpires at each base and down the line.....:confused:

 

I know 2 MLB Umpires, both with excellent integrity and if they observed something illegal, neither would allow it to continue and I feel this crew, would certainly do the same.

 

Just ask the Royals, if McClelland would allow anything....

See post #15, in this thread.

 

 

Wow, I had no idea it was that effective. Thanks:thumb:

Baseball is filled with "irregularities" that are against the rules. Hitters stand outside the back of the batters box all the time to gain an advantage. I've never seen an umpire punish these "cheaters."

 

My point is this:

 

Ten years ago MLB would not have allowed Kenny Rogers to throw one pitch with a spot on his hand. However, with the direction of the game in the last decade, I think baseball is more inclined to err on the side of the pitcher.

 

In my mind, pitchers should get a leg up any way they can.

After reading and listening to all the reports, I've lost a lot of respect for MLB. IMO, there's no question it was pine tar, and almost everyone else outside of the Tigers organization is saying the same. This offense comes with immediate ejection and 10 game suspension. Batters with pine tar too high on the bat and corked bats are ejected, why not pitchers who cheat? All the comments I have heard is that it's no big deal, and it's a very common thing. So, is MLB saying that cheating is OK? :irked:

Actually Pine tar too high on the bat has no real penalty anymore other than it must be cleaned off. If a batter gets a hit then the hit stands. This was the fallout from the George Brett incident (after the Royals protested the Brett home run was in fact allowed.)

Pitchers, however cannot have the stuff on them while they are pitching. Rogers would have an arguement (though a flimsy one) if he had been in a National League park and had been swinging a bat prior to taking the mound. But there was no extra BP for the Gambler (AKA"Cheater") in Detroit.

....But there was no extra BP for the Gambler (AKA"Cheater") in Detroit.

Here's a link, to a top ten list of others, who have similar instances as Rogers.

 

Baseball Cheaters Top Ten List

And this one had to be the dumbest ever.

 

"5. Albert Belle and Jason Grimsley

 

Even before he was naming or not naming names in HGH-gate, Jason Grimsley had established himself as an innovative cheater. If not for Grimsley's Mission Impossible trip through the air duct, Albert Belle's bat-corking would have been just another entry on the miscreant's long ledger of misdeeds. But after the suspicious umps confiscated one of Belle's bats in 1994, Grimsley went into Agent Ethan Hunt mode and crawled through a duct, dropped down into the umps' locker room and replaced the bat with an uncorked one. "My heart was going a thousand miles a second," Grimsley would later say. His brain, sadly, was going considerably slower. The bat he replaced Belle's with had Paul Sorrento's autograph on it and the switcheroo couldn't save Belle from a seven-game suspension."